Margaret Egan_ EVP & General Counsel_ Hyatt Interviewed by Rachel Humphrey

Margaret discusses her 23 year career journey with Hyatt along with her legal career prior to that, including her leadership story, the role corporate purpose plays, and how she has evolved as attorneys have evolved into strategic business leaders. She talks about why self-awareness is such a valuable leadership trait, what she looks for when building great teams, and how she develops the new skills she needs to be successful. She also shares her advice to her younger self, her guiding star, and the one thing that would surprise people about her. 

Transcript

Speaker 0:05

hospitality podcast dedicated to empowering personal success, and I am extremely excited to have with me today Margaret Egan of Hyatt. Margaret, welcome to the program.

Speaker 2 0:14

Rachel, thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. Really appreciate the opportunity.

Speaker 0:19

Well, before we jump into your journey, I'm actually gonna share with our audience a leadership lesson that I have learned from this, which is a few weeks ago, as I told you, I was sharing with someone that I have a bucket list of people I would like to interview or moderate while I'm still doing this, and you were on it, and I said it out loud- Oh and here we are sitting here. So my leadership lesson for today is say what you'd like out loud, and you never know what can happen for you, but-

Speaker 2 0:46

Oh, that's

Speaker 0:47

wonderful really excited to finally get to sit down and talk with you. But we will jump right in now to- Yeah your journey to leadership. One of the things that I love so much about the industry is how different everybody's path can be and still- Yeah achieve great success in the industry. So tell us a little bit about your background, maybe some of the pivotal points in your career journey- Mm-hmm and how you ended up where you are today.

Speaker 2 1:10

Yeah, absolutely. I came to hospitality by luck, I think. Like, I didn't start my career thinking, "Oh, I'm gonna... This is where I'm going to end up." I started as a litigator and I, from a very young age, I wanted to be a lawyer, which is maybe a little bit weird, but I really did. Like, we're talking middle school I wanted to be a lawyer. And I was k- I was sort of fascinated by the intellectual challenges of it, you know, and the, the idea that the law shapes society, that everybody runs on a set of rules that have been passed down over time and, and honed over time. And so, um... But in my mind, I thought n- no self-respecting lawyer is anything but a litigator. Like, I thought- I was gonna be in court all the time. I had- Thank

Speaker 1:53

goodness that's what I did for my career, or else I'd feel terrible right now.

Speaker 2 1:56

I, I mean, and I'm not doing that now. But yeah, I thought, like, you're in court, and that's how you do it, and corporate law was not even a twinkle in my eye. So I went into private practice for about four years in Chicago at a great firm. I got a ton of early experience, trial experience, in-court experience. It was really wonderful. And then my husband and I moved to London for about two years, and I worked with the Department of Justice in London, and that was, oddly enough, like moving into an in-house role because the DOJ in Europe manage all litigation to which the US is a party. And so we had a docket of, like, 5 or 600 cases that were running o- You know, some of them took years and years to go through. But it was about managing caseloads, and, um, so that was really interesting, and it was an interesting time. We were there in 2000 and 2001, and then we came back, and I went back to a private practice, and then I joined Hyatt. And I joined Hyatt, um, A, 'cause the industry did sound interesting to me, but mostly because Hyatt had a great reputation in Chicago, and I knew people who were there. I knew the, uh... Actually, I used to work with the husband of the general counsel at the time. And so I came to Hyatt- N- un- unsure about what it meant, but willing to take the law firm pay cut to go in-house. It was a real pay cut then, it's a real pay cut now, for anybody- who are wondering, it's still true. But I, um, and I came in to oversee litigation or support litigation. I, I worked for a senior attorney here in the department, and also operations. And when you think about pivots, I was about a year into it. I was expecting my first child. I wasn't sure what the next step would be. Do I stay? Do I, do I be a stay-at-home mom? Do I stay the, in, in my role? And that was at a time where Hyatt had just completed a big transaction with a big portfolio of hotels, a portion of which were franchised, and that was Hyatt's, like, entrée, real entrée into franchising. And my litigation practice back at, in private practice was franchise litigation. So the general counsel was great. She said, "We're gonna set up a division, small division, and it needs a lawyer, so y- I think you could be the lawyer on it because it, it's got a franchise business element, and you know what a franchise is." And I was like, "I know how to litigate it, but I haven't-" done, like, the disclosure work or anything else." And so anyway, that was the, that was the main pivot that I think everything else played from there. And, um It, you know, my, my role quickly changed. I was doing a lot of transactional work. I was doing... I was sort of like a GC of a startup, but I, I always say this, that it was nice to know you'd get paid every two weeks, 'cause Hyatt backstopped it. So we were like this little, we were running wild, you know, this little division at Hyatt, uh, be- in pub- private company days, and I learned a ton. So that's really, that's how I got into it, and absolutely fell in love with the industry and the people and what it was all about.

Speaker 4:58

I love that. Yeah. Well, you have so many great leadership points I wanna talk about in there, specific maybe to the legal career journey and the Hyatt journey. So I wanna start with your leadership evolution. When you are at one place for a long time, I think you've been at Hyatt over 20 years now, a couple of things. Can you think of ways you had to hone your leadership or ways your leadership style changed? Because you've had a lot of different roles since you've been there.

Speaker 2 5:27

Yeah.

Speaker 5:27

But also how you stay fresh when you stay with the same company for that long.

Speaker 2 5:33

Yeah. You know, I think l- leadership evolves over time. I think we all, you hope that we all are going to evolve over time. Not just getting better at it, but shifting what is required of you in different roles, and a role you may have had yesterday is not going to... You might need different things tomorrow in the next role than you did yesterday. But moving from what felt like an individual contributor role, where I was, you know, I took accountability over certain work initiatives and, and projects, there's leadership in that. There, how do you show up in that? But that becomes very different when you're managing teams, you're managing processes. And a early lesson for me several years ago, because of the way we were structured at Hyatt, the international lawyers in our offices, and we were growing those offices, those, those teams across the globe, reported to me. And so I spent a lot of time outside of the United States getting to know the teams and getting to know- how they were trained as lawyers, very different in, in, from, in, from country to country. And I learned a lot about listening, and I learned about, you know, the real, the value of empathy and understanding where people were coming from. And I think that that's a capability you build over time, that if you're doing it right, you're really leaning into the work of others, what matters to them, and bringing out the best in them. And I, I think, again, leadership evolves over time, but also the shadow of your leadership extends and shifts and moves in different directions. And so much more of it is around bringing out the best in other people and taking a back seat than it is in the early days when you're trying to prove yourself as an individual and, you know, make sure that people understand, "Hey, I'm, I'm smart and I work hard, and I can get a great... You know, I'll, I'll drive this to a great outcome." That's all great, but leadership is really making sure that you create the conditions for other people to do that, because I'm not a solo practitioner. You know, I, I, it's a big team now, and it's just, um, the thing I spend the most time about- on probably as a leader is how do I help other peoples be the be- other people be the best version of themselves that they can be? And then, you know, all of the work is great. All of it, you know, it, it raises the, the tide for everybody

Speaker 7:51

I love that, how do you help everybody else be their best, and I agree that leadership evolves over time. The great lesson in there too is the ability to be curious and ask others. When... As you're going around and you're talking about their training and you're learning from them and how different we all are and how many similarities we all have-

Speaker 2 8:08

Yeah

Speaker 8:08

and how much of that leadership for you has been listening, absorbing, and then figuring out what to do with it. Um, you know, one of the things that I am very interested in over the 30-plus years now that I've been an attorney is really this idea that lawyers are evolving into business leaders, and we talk about this a lot. You know, it used to be risk management or the uh-ohs or the whatevers it was.

Speaker 2 8:32

Yeah.

Speaker 8:32

But, you know, now your role is part of a leadership team. It is seen as- Mm-hmm a business strategic leader, not just in the legal capacity, but overall. And I'm curious your thoughts, your experiences on that evolution, both for you personally and for the profession as a whole. How do you think that that is really evolving in your eyes, and how does it benefit business to have lawyers as part of those leadership teams?

Speaker 2 9:01

There's no question that there's a different expectation on people in my position now to be business leaders. There's no question. Like, like it's not just from my perspective, and I'll talk about that in a moment at Hyatt, but the... my, my peers in other companies outside the industry as well we're all saying the same thing. There's a real expectation that while the general counsel is shaping legal strategy, it... you have to really understand the business strategy. And the, you know, you think about all the training that goes into being a lawyer, and it, you know, you see issues maybe a little bit differently. You're, you know, you're c- you take that critical eye that you learned over time and apply it to the business for better outcomes. And, you know, certainly at Hyatt, there's an expectation that everybody in the senior leadership team is in fact an enterprise leader. Like, you have a voice and you have a point of view, and it's not just encouraged, it's expected that you're going to share it. Like, why wouldn't the s- the senior leaders ben- want to benefit from more insights from people who have great experience, who've seen a lot of things, um, to get better outcomes? And I see that more and more. You know, there's, there's a lot of work that I do that is beyond legal. You know, yes, risk management is part of my department And they're close cousins. They're different, but they're close cousins. Um, but also global communications and messaging, you know, globally and, uh, as long, as, as well as, uh, sort of ESG and sustainability. So all of those things I think inform my point of view in many years at Hyatt, right? 20, almost 23 years at Hyatt. I joke that I'm, I'm a general counsel. I'm a generalist. Like I'm not, I'm not an expert in anything anymore. I'm not. I'm smart enough to surround myself by experts. That's part of the learning. Like when you don't know it, make sure you have people around you who do. But I do think my expertise is in Hyatt, in the industry, and having seen things over a long period of time, and also pushing us to stay fresh and learn more. That's one thing we have... This company has changed a lot since I joined, a much smaller company with domestic operations and international operations, and they were joined together, and then we went public and we have transformed our balance sheet and we've done a lot of M&A. We've done a lot of different things that have pushed our learning, pushed my personal learning journey, which is also part of the reason why I'm probably still here. Um, I think that, that, um, that, that evolution has made it interesting enough to stay, and I think I'm actually a better lawyer for having gone in-house than I might have been if I'd stayed at a law firm. Like I think it, this is the right place for me to kind of Push myself, learn more, be intr- like, I tend to run at... I get excited about things and I'll run at things. You know, the, the key is to have the, uh, the stamina to see it all the way through. Uh, right? We learn that over time. But I love the new and the challenges that come with that, and I think that's what, um, that's why I'm here, but I think that's why it works at the senior leadership level because we're all, you know, we're kind of in that mode of learn more, take those insights, translate them into strategy, and execute on them.

Speaker 12:19

Do you think, Margaret, you can ever wear only one hat for whether it's in the legal role, the business role? Do they al- are they always intertwined seamlessly? Are there minutes where you're like, "Ah, lawyer hat here." Yeah.

Speaker 2 12:34

Well, it's, it's funny. Every once in a while I'm in a meeting and something happens and I'm like, "Oh, ah, sorry, the lawyer just showed up." "I'm, mm, you're, you're gonna have to hold on that one. I'm not sure you can do that." But truthfully, that's rare. That's very, very rare. I don't think they're ever separate because the training that you get as a lawyer to identify issues, and if you're a good lawyer, solve those issues. Mm-hmm. You know, the creative solutioning, how might we get there? Those kinds of great lawyers, and I'm not saying I'm a great lawyer, I endeavor to be one, but that solutioning goes hand-in-hand with the risk identification and the lawyer skills. So I think, um, you're better served if they're integrated, provided that it's not the 10 things that are wrong with something, it's the three ways we might solve f- get, get to the solution. That's what makes a lawyer a great lawyer, and therefore they go together. I don't think you... I, you know, there are a lot of times where I'm like, "I don't like the brand logo here. What if it was blue?" You know, that has nothing to do with my legal skills. It's more interest. But mostly I think, um, they're pretty integrated.

Speaker 13:46

I like that. You mentioned a few minutes ago that you have had the opportunity to be curious and have to learn new things as you've, as the company has evolved, but also as your role here, there, that's evolved. And I wanna break this one into two parts. One is transitioning to corporate counsel, were there skills as a litigator, as a law firm attorney, that as you went into a corporate environment you're like, "Wow, I haven't had to do this before, but I'm gonna need to learn it to get up to speed"? And I mean less maybe about the substantive legal part. And then the other, the flip side of that, is just the general business skills. As you have evolved your leadership and there's more expected of you from a business standpoint, um, I can tell you for me it was budgeting, forecasting. I'd done case- Yeah budgets, but I'd never budgeted for companies. Yeah. Uh, and I was really like, "I don't even know where to begin," and really had to dig in and find out. Mm. So I'm curious if there, if you can think of a skill that you recognized, "Okay, I'm gonna need this maybe skill I haven't had to flex before." Mm-hmm. And have you set out to develop it?

Speaker 2 14:51

A number of times over the years, you know, given the, the changes in my roles, there was always something that I I don't know. And in that very early pivot when the general counsel said, "Hey, we're setting up this division and you can be the lawyer for it, and you're gonna be all things to that division," that meant employment, it meant we, you know, we had some hotels under construction, it meant buying and selling real estate, it meant litigation. Okay, I could check the box on that. Operations and other things. And I was really floundering. Like, I, you know, it was hard actually in the beginning. And so I reached out to other people and said, "Hey, could you help me with this?" I was very transparent about that. You know, I felt that I had to be, strongly take responsibility for the outcome, but there was no way that I was going to know all the answers. And as time went along, I found more and more of my job was around transactions, was around buying and selling hotels, and then M&A and, you know, more broadly our, our development function in legal. And it was in M&A matters where I probably learned the most about the company and about the things that, that you sh- that you wanna flag. Because you're looking at accounting treatment. You're looking at, you know, due diligence is just one side of integration. You're, you know, how are you, what you're buying and how are you gonna integrate that in the company? There's HR, there's tech, there's finance, there's a whole bunch of things. And so, um, I really partnered with the finance team. I partnered with outside counsel for sure, who knew how to run a, an M&A deal, and I did not. Uh, and I learned from them, and I learned who to continue partnering with on all of that. It was, but it was really about exercising that- High degree of curiosity and interest, uh, because it was fun work. I really enjoyed the work, and that made it easy to kind of keep learning. But I, it, you know, you have to be, you gotta be transparent about what you do and don't know. There, I know we all want to show up looking like we know what we're doing. We don't wanna show up looking like we don't know what we're doing. But it is also okay and, and encouraged to be transparent enough to say, "I'm not the expert in that, but I will make sure that I bring that expertise to the table for the better outcome." And learning, now I always j- joke the, the line that everybody uses, you know, I know enough to be dangerous. It's true I know enough to be dangerous. I know enough to say, "I'm pretty sure that thing's an issue. I'm not sure I remember why, but let's go chase it down." And you know, I mean, my accuracy rate is high enough that people still listen to me when I say that. So it's, it, but it's fun. I find the journey really exciting and fun, and that's why I'm still here, still learning and growing. Yeah.

Speaker 17:31

Well, and bravo to you for both having the courage, but also the knowledge to say, "I don't know, but I'd like to learn." And then once you learn it, being able to repeat that again as you're continuing to learn new things. When David Kong interviewed Mark Hoplamazian for the podcast, they spoke a lot about the importance of Hyatt's corporate purpose of caring for people so they- Yeah can be their best. And I wanna ask you both how do you show up as a leader to- Mm support that corporate purpose, and why is it so important for you to be somewhere that does have such an important core purpose at heart?

Speaker 2 18:10

It is, it really is everything, and I think it is the reason that I'm here almost 23 years later. And the purpose statement itself, to care for peop- we care for people so they can be their best. When we first articulated that, it, we didn't just make it up. We spent a lot of time thinking about our culture, what makes Hyatt different, and how we were going to scale our culture. 'Cause you know, you, you, if you grow more through franchising, if you grow more through M&A in, into other jurisdictions, how do you ensure that Hyatt stays Hyatt, and why should you? Like, why does it matter? Maybe cultures should change if they're not good cultures. In our case, a culture based on care, uh, which is essentially empathy, you know, un- understanding where people com- are coming from and using insights and empathy to really care for them. So if you're, when you're coming to our hotels, we're meeting you on your life's journey, not the other way around, where we're trying to understand who you are and how we can care for you. That is different than serving people. And so that I think it's, it's not just that it's taken hold in Hyatt. I think every single one of us could probably say why purpose matters to us. For me- It wasn't a surprise, but it was an affirmation when I got into the C-suite role to understand or come to understand how much that purpose actually influences our decisions, that it really does influence the articulation of our strategy and what matters to us. And I think it's a differentiator, I like to think it's a differentiator in how we engage with our guests. Um, and we, we s- we talk about care across a continuum. It's, it's guests, it's customers, hotel owners, investors, colleagues, all of that. But I think if our colleagues are feeling it and our guests are feeling it, then we are... That's part of the differentiation story with Hyatt and our strategy. And so for me, you know, it would be one thing if you were a caring person in an organization of highly transactional-minded folks, and it would, you would just be bumping up against that all the time. When you're one of an army of people who behave in a certain way, that, you have real impact. You can feel that you make a difference. And, you know, to be clear, care isn't about frictionless. It mean, it doesn't mean that there are not differences of opinion. It certainly doesn't mean that you do not give real feedback to people, to your team, to other colleagues. I mean, this, the essence of care, if you really care about somebody, you'll give them feedback in a, in a nice way, but you're gonna... You know, you'll help them along because it matters to you how they are developing or how they're doing. And so, um, in a way, it's sort of, I don't know, it's liberating because it is a North Star. It is the thing that you can say, gosh, when the chips are down. When COVID hit and we were closing so many hotels and we were less than 10% occupancy globally, like, like all the hotel companies, care and how we thought about the wind down of hotels and the impact on colleagues made all the difference in the world. And, um, so yeah, like I, I am so proud of it. I'm very... I guard it carefully. Like I, I try to suss that out of every interview I do when someone's joining the company. Like will this person show up that way? And they don't have to have... Every day's not perfect. You're not perfect every day. But you've gotta care about people, and you've gotta care about outcomes and be... Exercise empathy And maybe, maybe be a little bit vulnerable because being vulnerable is how... I don't know, you can't really care for people unless you can be a little bit vulnerable. There aren't a lot of organizations that, that celebrate and support that, and I think Hyatt does.

Speaker 22:00

Well, I love the concept of the North Star too, because it lets everybody, like you said, whether it's the colleagues- Yeah the guests, the investors, the owners, know that you have a, a vision point- Yeah and you're gonna be guided in your decisions from that. When we spoke recently, you told me that you thought one of the most important leadership traits that you have or that you can have is self-awareness. Can you elaborate on that? How do you show up with that self-awareness intact, and how does that- Yeah really, um, support or define how you show up as a leader?

Speaker 2 22:40

I don't know that I've... I don't think that I've changed fundamentally as a person from my first corporate job or my, you know, law firm job to today. But I am more self-aware about, of what those characteristics are. And with leadership development that we focus on at Hyatt, we go toward this. Like, we, we, we talk about self-awareness, understanding your own mindset, and understanding how you're showing up to other people. Because again, I don't think that you can really action care if you aren't aware enough of your own mindset and how, you know, what's, what's driving you, what's, what the emotional content is all the time. I think it's also true that you need to really understand your strengths and opportunities. And while I am far from perfect, I know when I'm off. Like, I know when I'm like, "Oh, that was, I was not at my best in that." And I really do try to go toward that and say, you know, "I'm sorry. Um, that wasn't, I wasn't at my best. I put some time thinking, thinking about that. I'm, I'm gonna be more aware of that the next time." But being able to say I'm sorry, being able to say I hear you, is pretty powerful, and genuinely applied is really powerful. And I, uh, I tell my team and I tell myself this, that we all have these innate strengths and, and opportunities, as I said. And sometimes you have to be self-aware enough to know that it could be the strength, your superpower, that you need to tune up a little bit or, or maybe even tune down a little bit for greater impact. You might be showing up in a way that you think is strong and great and someone's given you accolades on it on a pa- in the past, but you haven't met the moment that you're in right now. And, um, that constant calibration is something I think about a lot, actually, and I ask my team to think about a lot. Because even when they're great, sometimes, mm, maybe, maybe just dial that down a little. But they'll know. If they, if anyone of they wa- them watch this video, they know that when I'm like when I'm doing this, "Maybe dial it down just a little bit, or tune it up just a little bit more," you know. Um, and understand the shadow of their leadership, that, you know, those strengths and, and opportunities show up even bigger the bigger role you have 'cause people are really watching you. So, uh, self-awareness is, is I think everything. 'Cause at the end, it all... You can improve as long as you're self-aware and you start from a place of vulnerability and understanding

Speaker 25:02

Well, and that goes back to the leadership as an evolution. And so if you're able to see yourself and know where you have room for improvement- Yeah or where you can dial up or down, then with that curiosity and that evolution, that's going to allow you to really impact that leadership journey that you're on.

Speaker 2 25:21

Yeah.

Speaker 25:21

Mark, I, I could talk to you all day. I have so many things. But because we're gonna run short on time- Okay I'm gonna turn some of them into more of a quick-fire way. Okay. So I want to ask you very quickly, you mentioned earlier talking about your corporate purpose when you're interviewing, but what is one thing that when you're interviewing somebody, maybe that, not the resume item, not the- Mm-hmm skill set, where you're like, "This is somebody I need on my team"?

Speaker 2 25:46

I'm trying to figure out earnestness. How much people care, how much they're gonna go toward things with an open mind, and own, you know, accountability. And it's really hard to figure that out in an interview, and you can try to suss it out from somebody's resume, like where they've moved and why they've moved and so forth. But that sort of intangible quality of that earnest person who says, "How can I help? Throw me into the... Throw me in, Coach." Like, "Let me, let me... How can I help you?" That is, is... That goes a long, long, long, long way. There are a lot of smart lawyers out there, and we see resumes from lots of smart people, but the personality of how can I help with a good dose of humility, like, that's, that is it. And from there, you can build a lot, because they're motivated, theoretically motivated by the right things then. N- less of a sense of self, and more of a sense of how can I do more and help, and that, that connotes A bigger impact and more of a team focus than an individual focus.

Speaker 26:53

I love both the combination of the earnestness and the team focus. Um, how about a personal mantra or your own North Star? We've talked a little bit about the one for Hyatt, but do you have a guiding star that you look to when you're making decisions?

Speaker 2 27:08

Yeah, I think... I do, I go back to self-awareness. I think it's important to know yourself in the moment, but there's, there's just sort of the, the golden rule, you know. Are, are you showing up as the leader you wish you had? Are you showing up as, as someone who will, uh, hold people accountable with care and support them on their growth journey and be there for them when the chips are down and, and, you know, they need a boost? And I think we all want that in a leader, and I wanna be that person for my team. I go back to, I'm just here to help them be the best versions of themselves, and those, that, those versions are usually pretty unbelievable. They're fantastic. And so I got to say, get out of the way. Uh, but really, like, I don't know. I, I... Golden rule, I guess. You know, be the leader you, you wish you had.

Speaker 28:00

I love that. One of the things I love about the podcast is getting to know something about somebody I didn't know before or somebody I've known for a long time, or one common misperception, which I hear things about me from other people, I'm like, "Really? I, I would never have thought that." So tell me one thing either people don't know about you or one thing people have wrong about you.

Speaker 2 28:23

One thing they don't know about me, that as much as I love my job, and I really do, I also would've been happy to like own a bookstore and, you know, or, or something along those lines. When my husband and I moved to London, I applied to two jobs. One- and both of them were from ad- the ads in the paper, so I just dated myself. Like they know nothing of mine. One of them was just the Department of Justice at the American Embassy, and one was at a bookstore. And the bookstore- Ah flatly rejected me, and I'm like, "You've gotta be kidding me. I would've loved that." But no, I, I have that kind of, um, a non-kind of corporate side to me that is intriguing. Like a, you know, a, it's... I'm not really an artist, but sort of in the arts. I think, um, maybe a misperception, and maybe it's not a misperception, so maybe this is self-awareness. But, uh, I think that I can be a pretty direct person sometimes, and while I, I tr- try to remember the core mantra of care, you know, it's direct. And so I think people are like, "Oh, she's very direct. Like, she says what's on she's, what's on her mind." And I, and I do. I've, I've actually tempered that a little bit over time.

Speaker 29:25

I'm wondering if anybody else between the combination of moving to London and bookstores now has Notting Hill running through their heads.

Speaker 2 29:31

Oh, absolutely. Put me in Notting Hill. Maybe not a travel bookstore. That didn't seem to make any money. I do, I do have to eat after all, and not live with that weird roommate, so yeah.

Speaker 29:41

Anyhow. Yeah. All right. Getting to, um, the topic of evolution again, this is absolutely my favorite question because I do think that we're all works in progress, and one of the ways that we continue to evolve is to reflect. So as... I'm gonna go back even way before college. I'm gonna go back to Margaret, who in middle school decides she wants to be a lawyer. I am so curious, I'm gonna talk to you later about why, 'cause I think I knew why I wanted to be a lawyer back then. But I'm curious, what would you tell young Margaret then, either about how things turned out for you- Yeah or something you wish you knew then that might have made your journey a little bit easier or a little bit different for you?

Speaker 2 30:21

I think I could tell, I would want to tell that version of Margaret to be a little bit more confident and, you know, know yourself and, I don't know, be, be l- let Confidence. Probably it's around confidence. Having said that, I wouldn't change anything. Like, I think the, those moments in your life where you lack confidence and you kind of lean in to try to figure things out, then supplemented by the times when you felt pretty good, like you g- you know, you felt like you knew where you were, it's all a build. And so really, I, it's more like, "Hey, stay the course. Just keep doing what you're doing and it's gonna turn out great. You're gonna be on this amazing podcast with Rachel. It's gonna be

Speaker 31:01

awesome." I love that you would tell younger Margaret to know yourself, and yet one of your favorite or- most impactful leadership skills today is self-awareness. That's a really incredible- Yeah thought to think about. Well, as we wrap up today, you've shared with our listeners a lot of great leadership advice, a lot about your personal story. What is one thing that you would leave us with today?

Speaker 2 31:26

When all else fails, start with gratitude. When times are difficult, when your day is super terrible or something weird is going on, back up and start with gratitude, and that goes a long way. And I would add to that the line from the Beatles song, "And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make." And that's just true. Like, it- that's a little bit of that, of that, um, golden rule thing. Like, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot to give, and it comes back to you. And then, then have gratitude for that.

Speaker 32:00

That's really excellent. Well, I can say without any doubt or hesitancy that making sure that Margaret was on my bucket list of moderating your interviews was well worth it.

Speaker 2 32:11

Oh,

Speaker 32:11

you're welcome. Um, to our audience, we know you have a lot of ways to spend your day, so thank you very much for spending a little bit of time with us. Margaret, thank you so much for joining me on It's Personal Stories.

Speaker 2 32:21

Thank you so much for having me, and I've really enjoyed the journey of self-awareness through this conversation, so thank you so much.

Speaker 32:28

And once again, to our audience, you can head on over to itspersonalstories.com to hear from Margaret as well as many other industry leaders who have likewise shared their personal stories too. So Margaret, thank you so much. Thanks.