It's Personal Stories, A Hospitality Podcast

Naureen Ahmed, Founder, Inspiring Women in Hospitality interviewed by Lan Elliott

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Naureen discusses the Pie Theory, which says 60% of career development comes from exposure, which can come in the form of public speaking and developing one’s network internally and externally.  She shares the 3 things she focused on to develop her public speaking skills, and the power of using pauses for impact.  Plus, she discusses the importance of flexing one’s leadership style.

Lan Elliott:

Hello and welcome to It's Personal Stories, a hospitality podcast about empowering our Personal success. And today I'm really happy to have Noreen Ahmed with us, who is the founder of Inspiring Women in Hospitality. Welcome, Noreen.

Naureen Ahmed:

Thank you so much for having me here, Lan.

Lan Elliott:

Thrilled to have you. And for our audience, if you're not familiar with Noreen's Many accomplishments. I hope you go to our website where you can read more about her, but let's dig into her journey because you've had a really interesting career journey. And I'm wondering if you could share some of the inflection points in your career and if there were particular factors that contributed to your success.

Naureen Ahmed:

Sure. So I like to start with My first experience in hospitality after I graduated so young graduate, fresh out of university done the operational roles and then got myself into revenue management. And there was a moment where My manager moved on to a different role within the same organization. And I was like, great, this is my chance. I'm going to, I'm going to get her role next. I just have to prove that I can do it. I did, if a hard work and I can show that I can take care of the team, make sure all the tasks are done, get all the jobs done, be in the meetings, be present. And I thought, yeah, surely, I'll be the natural choice. And then a couple of months later, the head of the department, announces that they've hired a new manager externally. And I was like, okay, what happened? This was meant to be for me. And so when I asked the head of the department, like what happened? And she said, Maureen, you never asked for it. So that was a real big wake up call for me to realize that just doing hard work is not enough. It's not enough to help you progress your career and, get those promotions and, Drive the success of your professional development. So when I went into my next role, I was like, okay, I'm not going to make that mistake again. I definitely made my managers know the company know that I was definitely looking to grow my career. I was ambitious. I was driven. And again, I had an opportunity where my manager left. And that time I was the clear choice and it happened within a couple of months and I definitely took it and grabbed it and What I realized also that got me to that point was making sure that I was being visible, not only with my immediate team, but also the wider teams as well, the other department. So basically internal networking, right? Making sure that I get noticed. I have that visibility. I'm talking to people. I'm getting involved in different projects. Now, of course, I was still focused on Working hard doing good job and delivering on everything that I was set out to do and I did that but on top of that I made sure that I built my network and my visibility within the organization. Now that got me to the first promotion now that wasn't going to get me to the next one. So what I had to then work on next is. So then I if I wanted to get into a leadership role, I needed to work and I identified that there was one main thing that I needed to work on. And that was on my, again, having to do with speaking. It was my voice projection and also just speaking up in meetings. I was often, And perhaps I was having a bit of an imposter syndrome moment at that point. Oh my God, am I, do I deserve to be here and all of that anyways? So I used to talk in a very low register, right? I'd be very soft spoken and no one would really understand what I'm saying and not really believe in me. And does this girl really know what she's talking about? Does she even believe in herself? And it's simply speaking up, pausing, breathing, and just being heard in meetings, especially in the right meetings as well, where there is a lot of other senior leaders within the organization, making sure that you're thinking about broader and being part of the discussion. So I really had to work on developing, raising the level of my voice. So basically voice projection to ensure that I was being noticed and heard. So then that helped me get to, so the next next level. With the work that I'm doing today It's all around gender balance. And I think for me, it was another inflection point in my life where I was like, everything was going well, I had a good life. I had a home, friends, family, I was loving what I was doing yet. Somehow there was something missing. And I was like, what am I, if I look back in my career and I'm like, What impact have I left behind or even in my life? What am I here for? What am I going to be known for? And I was like, what I'm doing right now is not enough. I need something more. I need something different. So that really took me on this whole journey of self discovery to understand how am I going to make a contribution? How am I going to make an impact? And I think for a lot of women, that is also important. It's not just about the job and the title. They want to know that the work that they're doing. Is. Creating some kind of impact, adding some value, creating some worth. So that was when that led me down the route of wanting to work with women in hospitality, making sure that we have the right level of visibility, making sure that we have the right leaders within the industry being represented in senior positions, which I noticed was Very much lacking. It's still lacking today. We've definitely made some progress, I would say, in the sort of last four to five years, but there's definitely still more to be done. So it was a lot of that soul searching, for lack of a better word, that then led me to the path of what I'm doing today.

Lan Elliott:

Yeah, I really love that. And I love the themes of self discovery and asking for what you want. I also loved that you mentioned just the tone of your voice. which can be really impactful of how you're perceived I wanted to switch over to developing a network, because that is something that can be uncomfortable for a lot of people. But actually, you and I are part of a new network for me, because I met you in this chapter of my life of doing similar work around advancing women. And how do you develop your network, Noreen, in a way that's authentic to you? And I understand that you have a way to network strategically. So I'm really curious about strategic networking. Can you share a bit about that?

Naureen Ahmed:

Sure. So I'll share the things that I didn't do well first and then go on to what's working for me now. So I mentioned earlier during my career to develop my leadership I was focusing a lot on my internal networking. What I realized, I was not optimizing enough with my external network. As well, it's just so focused on the internal. I didn't realize the impact of the external that was required. Also, because ultimately, when you're within an organization, you are a brand ambassador for that organization. So as much as you're putting yourself out there, you are Basically you're representative of that company and you have something to share and you have something to offer, but at the same time, you're also building your own profile and your own network. And I think I did not do that. strategically enough to realize that I, as an individual, I also have something to offer. I'm not just, just the representative of the company. Yes, that's a core element, a big part of it, but there's also me ignoring the individual that there's something to offer there. So I think the other thing that really changed for me And I would say I didn't really start this in earnest until COVID, right? And then I started networking in a virtual capacity, thanks to, great technology and social media platforms like LinkedIn, to start connecting. With women to understand how can I capture their stories, right? Really driven now by my purpose, by my motivation to want to increase the visibility of women in our industry. And that was when the podcast came into being and really then leveraging what I had built already, but then adding onto it. It became a lot easier to reach out to people and make that connection once I knew what my purpose was. Now I'm not saying everyone should go out and develop a podcast and make that the reason why they reach out to people, but you can do it, What is your reason? Do you want to be a subject matter expert in a particular area? And do you want to be known for that? Start using platforms like LinkedIn to share your story, share your message. Maybe you're looking for a mentor, start connecting with people there. You're looking for someone to help you grow your career. It's not just to don't start building your network just because you're starting to look for a job. It's something that we need to do consistently throughout our career. And it's actually, Then cultivating and maintaining those connections on an ongoing basis, which is actually, I think the harder part. Dropping them a message or an email and just say checking in or congratulating them on a promotion they may had or a new job or a comment or, and now as, as I'm, this post COVID world, obviously we're meeting a lot more in person and we're getting out there where we're networking, we're meeting at events and conferences there as well, try and meet as many people as possible, but yeah. When I say strategically, it's pre the event, look at the attendee list, try and see if there's people in there that you would like to connect with. Once you're there, identify people that can help you introduce you to other people. It's not easy. So finding a partner that you can go with, like a buddy, I like to call that you can network together with other people. And yeah, being there, being in the room, it's hard, it's not easy for sure. Definitely for women, it's even harder, especially with a lot of the events that we go to where it's mostly, a lot of men in the room, it can feel intimidating, but if you can find someone to go with, that's, it does help and any opportunities you can do to put yourself out there as well. It's building that visibility and building your own profile. That's important. I

Lan Elliott:

love that. And LinkedIn is such a wonderful tool for doing. Just that to connect with people. I've had people just reach out to me on LinkedIn and that's been a really wonderful way to meet new people. And I love the intentionality of going to a conference. And I used to do that. I used to come up with a list of people that I would love to meet or friends that I want to reconnect with and be intentional about reaching out in advance. Great points on that. I love those. Let's talk about public speaking because that could be a panel. It could be a keynote at a conference, but most people don't start there. It usually starts in other settings. It could be. In that meeting or presenting to a group, and you would even mentioned modulating your voice so that you could be more impactful when you spoke at meetings. How important is the skill of public speaking and elevating one's career, regardless of what aspect of the industry you're in? You're in and how did you go about developing it? How do you prepare to be more confident?

Naureen Ahmed:

So I would say I would have I have two I had two training grounds one the first was at university and In, in the hotel school in Switzerland, we do a lot of teamwork, a lot of presentations of your project. So we got a lot of practice then. And then the second training ground was during my time at STR where I was able, we would be asked to speak at events and conferences and talk about the data and share the stories and, And to do this at a global level, I was very privileged to be able to have that opportunity. Just as I was sharing earlier about my voice projection, I definitely needed to do a lot of work on practicing, enhancing, fine tuning my public speaking as well, to make sure that the messages I was sharing is landing. And I'm using all of those tools and resources that I learned, during those two training grounds to the work that I'm doing today. And I'd probably say there were three things that I needed to work on. As I was delivering or I was in, in spaces when I was on stage or at conference and events. So first I already shared the voice projection. The second was to breathe. Sometimes I would Just talk without taking a single breath in it and it was like I'd run out of air and What was interesting when you're at the receiving end of it you as the audience you feel nervous Like when is this woman actually going to stop and take a breath? And you completely it completely distracts you from the messaging that you're trying to share and second using pauses I think that is incredibly powerful and we don't use that enough. We get so, we want to fill the space, we want to fill the silences. On the other hand, using pauses can be incredibly Really empowering. In fact, I was watching a video yesterday and they were showing an example of, how someone started public speaking. He got onto the stage and just stood there. And for at least I don't know, 10 seconds, didn't say a single word, not I am so and so hello, welcome, nothing. Just, and the tension that he managed to build anticipation was incredibly. Wow. I was like I can't wait to try that out someday. And secondly, why is it important, especially with the work that we're doing with women to elevate women into senior positions? Got to get ourselves out there. The visibility piece is so important to be not only for your own development, but to be able to, become like an inspiration or role models to other, to showcase that, yes, I can do it. You can do it too. So we need that diversity to be represented on big stages. Cause these events, it's just not, it's not just an opportunity for networking, but it's also to elevate your profile too.

Lan Elliott:

Absolutely. And I definitely want to get into that, which I'm going to do in a minute. But first, I wanted to dive a bit into storytelling because it's related to public speaking, and it is actually a skill to develop and one of your top skills. And it is something that in the last few years, I've really tried to focus on. So I am really curious, how Do you develop the skill of storytelling and how do you use it now?

Naureen Ahmed:

Yeah, I think, and I don't know if we're going to be covering this a little bit later, but I think the, what I've learned with storytelling is to be true to yourself, to be authentic and not be afraid to share who you are. And I'll share a simple example. I was doing a workshop a couple of weeks ago. on imposter syndrome. And I was doing like a demo. It was a silly example. I was saying, how to make rice. And my first, I did a first one, I did a bad one. The second, I did a good one or a better one. And it was like, the first one was very monotone. It was very basic. It was like literally reading out a recipe. And the second time I did it with all the addition, Additional tips I was adding but I included different elements like I said, okay One cup of rice normally feeds two people Unless i'm cooking for my brother where one cup of rice is barely enough for him so And that was this bit that they remembered Right? And that is why we need the storytelling piece. And that is when you bring elements of yourself into the, into whatever interaction that you're having. It's, I shared this example of my brother, but there are so many things that are happening in your life that you can incorporate. Like I just shared the other example of this video I watched, so it's sharing little bits and pieces. what's happening in my life that we bring into the conversation to make it more engaging because people will remember the story. They're not going to remember how to make the rice, but they're going to remember that my brother eats.

Lan Elliott:

I love that. And I love the idea that stories are what stick with people and stay with them. And long after the speech or the podcast is over or your conversation, they'll remember the stories. And I love adding in those details that make it far more memorable and engaging for the audience. Thank you. One of the things we talked about earlier was exposure, and that's an important component of success. And you had mentioned that it's important public speaking to be out there, to be recognized, for example, as a subject matter expert and it can change how you're perceived both internally and externally. One of the things you've talked about in the past is pie theory and how exposure relates to pie theory. Can you talk about pie theory? I think it's where 60 percent of career development comes from exposure. And I'm curious, given Pytheory, what advice do you have for our audience?

Naureen Ahmed:

Yeah, I remember seeing that for the first time a couple years ago, and as much as it surprised me, that 60 percent of your career development comes from exposure, not from your performance or your technical skills, but actually from Your visibility, or in this case, exposure, as surprised as I was, as I reflected on my career journey, I realized that was true because I would not have, as I shared in my earlier examples, I would not have progressed if I didn't speak up, if I didn't learn to do my voice projection, if I didn't learn to ask for what I wanted, if I didn't, make sure that I get involved in projects that was outside my remit, in many cases, in some examples, I've created some of my own opportunities. During my corporate career and even with the work that I'm doing today, if I hadn't put myself out there, I wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation with you today, quite frankly, right? If I hadn't started my podcast, if I hadn't started, my community, the membership, I wouldn't have been part of the Alliance. I wouldn't have known Emily and then Rachel and it's all connected. And it's because I exposed myself. I put myself out there and made sure that I'm being visible and sharing the stories and sharing my own experiences. So how much does that have to do with my performance and technical skills? Yeah, of course that adds up to the rest 40%, but the 60 percent comes from the visibility piece.

Lan Elliott:

I love that because I think a lot of people get caught up, especially when you're right out of school and you've been rewarded from being really technically knowledgeable. The better you know your subject, the better, better, you know how to do your job, that's what you get good grades for. That's what you get recognized for. But there is definitely this moment, this shift in your career when you get to Maybe the 1st or 2nd promotion where this exposure starts to become more and more important. And so the elements you've talked about, the public speaking, being vocal in the right way and meetings speaking up and also that internal networking and external all of that. Is around that theme of exposure and making sure that people know who you are, because I think there was a time in my career. I thought if I just sat in my office and did really great work, great things would come to me and that's just not the way the world works. And if I had known about pie theory back then, that would have been super helpful for me to get up and go talk to some people in the company. Yeah.

Naureen Ahmed:

And yeah we're taught, the education system teaches us the technical skills very well. The reality is, when you come into the corporate world or the professional world, let's put it that way, that you don't have the same grading system that we were all like. Marked on or judged on right and it doesn't you know, real world doesn't really work that way So it is a bit of a shock to our system and you know for anyone who likes to have that kind of okay This is the structure. This is the format and this is how you follow it. That's great. But Yeah. When you come into the working world, each company has their own culture, has their own, guidelines and policies and things of how they work. But I think the one thing that is consistent is the only way that you will progress. And if that is what you want, I think it also goes back to knowing what you want, having that level of self awareness, because if you want to be the technical expert, you absolutely can be, and you can go on to have a very good career. However, you want to progress in your career and, move up, as they would say, the corporate ladder. What you also have to get comfortable with is letting go. Delegating, the things that you were good at before you, you will obviously always continue to be good at, but that's not what you're needed for anymore. There will be other people who are going to be good at it. And you will come across people who are good at things that you're not good at. And that's absolutely okay. It's understanding how together, collectively as a team, you work well. And. Then you also then deliver the results that benefits the entire organization. And actually probably the last thing I want to say on exposure is one of your responsibilities as a leader. As we start talking about leadership is you're also exposing your team. It's not just about talking about yourself. It's about talking about. Your team as well. So it's finding that fine balance between taking credit where credit is due for yourself as an individual. And I think women are unfortunately sometimes guilty of not doing this enough, but at the same time, making sure that your team as a whole collectively gets. It's that visibility as well.

Lan Elliott:

Absolutely. I think that's so true. And you had started to lead it a little bit into leadership. And I love that you touched on a theme, which is that in addition to learning that exposure is really important. The other thing that you need to start doing is learning to delegate. And Learning to work through other people, because it's always going to be faster to do it yourself, but learning to, to have other people be really good at doing what you know how to do allows you the chance to move up and do other things. And along those lines, I wanted to talk about leadership styles, because I've noticed that men and women. Tend to have different leadership styles and can lean into different strengths in that way. Could you share your thoughts a little bit about let's call them feminine versus masculine leadership styles?

Naureen Ahmed:

So what I would like to say on feminine and masculine, I wouldn't say they're styles, they're mostly traits. So words that, get thrown about is Oh competitive or aggressive or collaborative or, multitasking or empathetic or goal oriented, these traits in an individual have been genderfied and they really shouldn't be. I think we each have something of both in each of us, right? We have as individuals, we can have both feminine and masculine qualities, but I think for me, what's. When I think about leadership style, it's actually what makes the individual unique. And that is what, where the style comes in. And also what I learned through the years is that I flex my style depending on who I'm interacting with, depending on who needs what. For me as well, because some people definitely need more hand holding. Some people just need okay, here's the vision, here's the mission. Just, go and run with it. And different people also need different things at different points in their life as well. And I think it goes back to that self awareness piece, knowing yourself. It's important knowing what you bring to the table and then what you don't so that you fill those gaps with others who do have those qualities that you may not have, or, if you're aware of the gaps, then just be mindful of it so that when you're, in a situation where you perhaps, for example, I'll say I'm not very competitive playing board games, whatever, like people get frustrated with me because I don't take it seriously. And so fine, I'm not that. Making sure that I have people in my team who are perhaps a little bit more, competitive minded, but I am goal oriented, for example perhaps, it's a different, if it's a different driver, it's a different motivation as well. So that's why I say, flexing your style and understanding what makes you. Unique no one is supposed to fit into a box I think I used to think that I need to fit into a certain box and that's going to be you know my leadership style, but actually the reality is Knowing myself and understanding how I am as a leader is what I try to bring forward into you know any of the conversations and interactions like Don't try and be like somebody else just be yourself. You can be inspired by others 100 But if I try to be someone that i'm not if you try to be someone that you're not You It will be noticeable immediately

Lan Elliott:

for sure. I tried that and it failed miserably. And then I had to find my own way of being a leader. But I also really am a big believer in what you mentioned around flexing because. What I think made me more impactful was when I was able to understand what each person needed, which was slightly different and adjusting my style to what they needed in that moment. So thank you for sharing that. I wanted to pivot to talk about Inspiring Women in Hospitality, which is an organization that you founded. Could you share maybe one of the initiatives that you're most excited about that. That you feel is going to have a significant impact. So

Naureen Ahmed:

there's several things, of course. I'm not sure if I could fully, narrow it down into one. What I will say is that my hope in the future is that we become a real voice for the industry, right? As the group grows, as the community grows, as we develop, that we can really be instrumental. In shaping the makeup of our leadership in the industry and say, in the next 5 to 10 years, my hope is that we will see more diversity in the leaderships. Of various organizations across our industry, so it's working with women today, working with companies today to make sure that we're laying the foundation for those changes to happen in the future. I know it's not going to change overnight. There's that's obviously, not my expectation, but that is what I'm really. Hopeful for that. We can achieve through the various initiatives that I'm doing, whether it's through membership or whether it's through events or I, I'm not consulting co creating as I like to call it to, come and find solutions together to start, making those changes happen to see a more gender balanced a gender balanced space for our industry.

Lan Elliott:

I love that. And I love the work that you're doing. And thank you. Thank you so much for doing that and for giving back to others. I love that. Noreen, I always learn something when I talk with you. You've offered so much great advice, so much great career advice. Knowing that in personal stories is. dedicated to empowering personal success. Do you have perhaps one final nugget of advice that you could share with our audience?

Naureen Ahmed:

So a lot of the topics that we've been talking about, visibility, exposure, public speaking, that is something that I talk a lot about especially with the work that I'm doing. And So normally that would have been my advice but what I am going to share instead today and inspired by different podcast recording I actually did this morning is find the time, first of all, give yourself permission to, Explore what you want to do or understand what your purpose is or understand how you want to live your life. I think sometimes we just go through life on a scripted path. We go to school, we go to university. We're told to get a good job. We're told to then, buy a house, get married, have kids, raise the kids, retire, and then live and hang on. First of all, who told us that's the scripted path for us. Second of all, have I made that choice for myself or was that just presented to me? So if there are moments in your life that you can find a time to actually question how you want to live your life And what is your purpose, what kind of impact do you want to make? I invite you to do that. It is scary to do, 100%. Because there, I've experienced this myself. There was, I think I shared at the very beginning that I was like, I had this moment like, what how did I get here? Sometimes you just, and this was actually a pre COVID epiphany, basically. And I think for many people, they did go through that during COVID. However, if you can, even if it, if, even if you choose a scripted, even if you go on the scripted path, I was talking about, make sure that it is your choice. Make sure that you're the one who has really chosen that, okay, this is what I want to be doing. And we now live in a time that we have so much choice, which sometimes also can be scary and intimidating. But if you can find the time, find the space, find even a community within which you can have those conversations and understand, and know that you're not alone in this journey, find that moment and ask yourself, and this can change by the way, you know what you may want today, you may want that to change in the next four to five years. So I think. Checking in with yourself because so many things will happen in your life that some are planned Some are unplanned and it makes you re evaluate So yeah, my final advice or invitation is to take find those moments where you can really Ask yourself, okay, is this what I'm meant to be doing? Is this how I'm living my life? Is this my purpose?

Lan Elliott:

Thank you so much, Noreen. That is a wonderful last bit of advice. And I love the invitation for self reflection. So thank you for being on Noreen. So wonderful to have you here. And also thank you so much for the work you're doing for women around the globe. I know what you do is global and really grateful to you.

Naureen Ahmed:

Thank you so much, Len.

Lan Elliott:

And for our audience, if you would like to see other wonderful interviews with hospitality leaders, I hope you'll go to our website. It's personalstories. com. Thank you.