It's Personal Stories, A Hospitality Podcast

Caroline Strachan, CEO, Festive Road interviewed by Dorothy Dowling

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Caroline shares how her roles as a buyer, travel manager, and supplier have propelled her to become the CEO of Festive Road. Her primary motivation has always been to do her best work and to embrace possibilities and to become a skilled communicator.


Dorothy Dowling:

Greetings. I am Dorothy Dowling, a principal of DEI Advisors. We are a nonprofit organization dedicated to personal empowerment. I am delighted to welcome Carolyn Strachan, CEO of Festive Road, to our show today. Carolyn, it is such an honor to have you with us.

Caroline Strachan:

So great to be here. Thank you, Dorothy.

Dorothy Dowling:

Thank you. Caroline, we always like to start with every DEI advisor to have them share their career journey with us. And I know you've had quite an incredible one in terms of being a buyer and then moving over to the supplier side. And of course now being the CEO of Festive Road, your travel management company. So I'm wondering if you can share your journey with us and how your career has shaped over the years. years and impart any wisdom that you'd like to share that.

Caroline Strachan:

Sure. Happy to. Um, someone asked me this question the other day personally, and I was trying to give them the quickest summary I could before I could quickly move the conversation onto something other than work. But actually it really made me laugh out loud as I shared it. So I thought I might do the same for you. So I think my summary of my career is by the age of 20, a manager of a travel agency. By the age of 30, a director in a meeting planning agency, by the age of 40, a VP in a TMC, and by the age of 50, now a CEO of a progressive consultancy, and I just hear myself say that out loud, and it really makes me laugh because It sounds like some kind of inspirational Instagram post, which is so the opposite of my reality. That's just not the world I live in. And I think back to being maybe my 20 year old self, and maybe you have some listeners in that age bracket thinking about what's my career and how do I plan? And I've often had the question, how did you get that job? And how did you get that job? And I always feel like I have a bit of a disappointing answer because they're expecting me to go, I had this amazing plan and here's how I did it. I never had a plan and I never chased the promotions. I've just always really loved the work that I've done. And I think I've really engaged in my employer's brand and their values and everything else. just came about quite naturally, just by showing up as the best version of me. And I probably wasn't until I was in my thirties did I realise that maybe that was a little bit naive, and that everyone around me had these plans, and they were really maniacal about, they were going to get the next job, and they were networking like hell internally to make that happen. And I didn't know you were meant to do that. I. I guess I've shared that pointed, time stamped career view because that's what we tend to do. It's almost like a CV of what is, what have you done. But the problem with doing that is actually, I've probably missed out one of the richest phases of my career, which was as a travel buyer. And it was 10 years and it was, I don't know, let's say 30. 5 years to 39. 5 years. So if you missed it out, if you talk about it in decades I got to work for the most amazing companies and brands going to work for Cisco was a next level opportunity for me. I got to work in the U S live in the U S and then moving on to Yahoo, really different company from Cisco, even though you think of them both being big tech West Coast. companies really different culturally, but to then move from Yahoo to one of the most amazing, powerful, largest pharmaceutical companies in the world. It was a real pinch moment of wow, I need to pinch myself. This is really happening. But I think that shift At that point in my career, so that would have been about mid 30s, moving to AstraZeneca was really def a defining moment in my career for me. It was a real turning point because I think there were leaders in AstraZeneca who really saw the art of the possible and they believed in me so greatly that I began to believe in myself.

Dorothy Dowling:

So if you had to sum that up for our listeners, there's a couple of things for me, Caroline. One is this conversation that people have about career forward, that actually being good at the job is your first ticket to success. So obviously that was always part of your DNA is that you brought. That great capability and commitment to the organizations, but you're saying that part of that journey was others that actually saw your greatness and actually allowed you to see your greatness that maybe powered your career in different ways.

Caroline Strachan:

Yeah, absolutely. If I think of what makes up a role, I always think about leading yourself as a leader. leading the business for me, but for others that might be leading your specialty or leading your one individual contributor role and leading others. Within the leading the business, dependent on the environment that you're in, I really found out over the years how much it mattered to manage upwards. versus manage out across the peers versus managing teams. And I think lots of people get that really wrong versus what you were just saying about showing up and doing the job as table stakes. I can think of many situations where there were people hanging out in the hallways, almost waiting to bump into the executives to create that elevator pitch opportunity. And I just never did that. I always wanted my results to speak for themselves. And again, I always felt quite naive that I wasn't doing those things, and I would talk to my leaders about it. And they would say, No, there's other ways of showing up in front of, that managing upwards piece. And I was telling the story yesterday to someone about bonus time. So in big companies, You can really work out who has your, who you have the support of who's your sponsors. When it comes to bonus time, and imagine there's 10 executives sat around the table and they're trying to divide the bonus pot. You've probably been here many times yourself, right? Do you have a leader who's going to go in there and say, she is amazing. She's done this, she's done this, she's done this. Like we absolutely have to give her exceeded. We have to give her a great bonus pot. They're going to really fight your corner because if you don't have one of those leaders, you're going to really miss out. And I'm using money as an example there, but actually it's just one moment of a whole year of they need to be going out to bat for you. So what I've learned over the years is make sure that everyone around that table knows who you are and knows who you are and how you want to show up. So I, my brand, I would say probably up until my mid late forties was I'm a mid late thirties was I'm the girl that can get it done. So if you want something delivering, bring it to me and I will make it happen. Whether that's delivering a travel program or delivering a manufacturing conference, which is I did once when I was in AstraZeneca, I will make it happen. And then you become known as that person. I think there's something there about knowing those people around you, who are those leaders who are going to really support you and making sure that there is a two way relationship there and you're giving something to them and they're giving something to you.

Dorothy Dowling:

Yeah. No, I think that reciprocity of delivering value to each other is really important in relationships. So maybe we can talk a little bit about your personal commitment in terms of. Do you have a, an overriding mantra that has guided your career or some other theme that has really driven you as you have moved along on your journey?

Caroline Strachan:

So there's probably been different themes at different times, but I think the one that best summarizes how I've handled myself maybe over the years or how I've approached work and life is live your dash. And maybe people won't have heard that before. It's a really beautiful poem by a lady called Linda Ellis. It's really worth looking up. And it's, let me be morbid for a moment I first heard it at a funeral of a loved one and it spoke to me so greatly. This was a number of years ago and it's the thought of The tombstone at the end of Caroline Strachan's life is going to say Caroline Strachan 1973 dash, let's say 2073. Let's hope I live to a ripe old age of a hundred. Those dates are actually meaningless, but everyone talks already. I've talked about the 20s, the 30s, like the dates, the timestamps are really irrelevant. It's that tiny little dash in the middle that summarizes your whole life. So that's where the live your dash comes from. And I think that's been my way is to truly live life, whether that's me being or live life and really enjoy life. So whether that's me as a mum, I've got 10 year old twin daughters, a netball player volunteering locally to help that netball club start up and continue running. Whether I'm a lunch host and I've got friends coming over or in my role as a CEO or as an industry volunteer. Give your everything. into each of those things while you're in it. Be 100 percent present. That's what's really made the difference for me because I truly feel like I'm living life and I just don't, I just don't have regrets. I just don't regret things in life because I think I go every task, be it personal work, with that mindset. I have not heard about

Dorothy Dowling:

Livia Dash before, but I love it Caroline. I think I might, Embrace that framing. I think I own this sort of the thought process, but I love that framing of live your dash. I know you've had some important mentors in your career that, as you said, saw more in you than you might've seen yourself. And I'm wondering if there's anything you can share with us in terms of how that defines your career.

Caroline Strachan:

Yeah. I've been so fortunate that there's been. many amazing people around me. I would also say, and this is maybe a little twisted thing to say, but I've always been, I've also been really fortunate that I've had less than positive experiences. And I would go as far as to say with toxic leaders and however difficult that was while I was in it, actually, I learned so much because I learned exactly what I didn't want to be. And in times in life, right? That can help you as much as being inspired by those that, who you really want to be. But I'd love to name check some people and explain why. And they're all from my time at AstraZeneca and it's, if I think of one company, I named some earlier, I've worked in some really brilliant companies, but AstraZeneca was absolutely next level because they are a hundred percent focuses the patient, but they truly realize they need to look after their people to make sure that they can support the patient. So my hiring leader, AstraZeneca, an amazing woman called Karen Mansell you've watched my Ted Talk, so you probably know a little bit of this story where I tried convincing her not to hire me in the interview. What was I thinking? Luckily, she saw through that. She hired me and she really helped me grow my leadership wings. And I will always be grateful. And I still spend time with her to this day. And I still say thank you every time I see her. John Kirby, our Chief Procurement Officer, he sponsored every mad project idea that I had. So if there was something weird and wonderful that I wanted to do with the travel program again, a little bit of naivety here. I've never been done before. Why couldn't it be done? Come on, let's just go and try. And he would sponsor me and he would go in front of the board and say, we should do this and we should do it for these reasons. And he would always say, if Caroline says she can deliver, she will. And so I always felt some pressure attached to that, but I knew I would deliver. If I've said I'm going to deliver, I knew I would. John had a really big impact on me and also came. We actually came from the same county. We lived about 10 minutes apart. We were children. We had a really similar education. So I found him really inspiring. I think he was probably the first leader, first senior leader I've worked for where I could really see some of myself in that person. And then the third choice, I think, would be an amazing human called Donald Ferguson. And whenever I think of Donald, I think he's the one that really toughened me up. And of course, if he's listening back, he's going to really laugh now. He's a Scottish guy, so he's going to have a wonderful Scottish laugh response to that. Yet at the same time, he was the most caring of individuals because I had some horrible life event curveballs thrown at me while I was working for him and he was the most amazing, caring, supportive leader. So I just feel in the whole time I had there, I had such a well rounded, like a pack of leaders around me, supporting me. How could I fail? I just, I couldn't have wanted for more.

Dorothy Dowling:

So I, I'd like to ask a little bit about, the risk taking that you took in your career, because you made definitive decisions about Some of the career choices that you've made, Caroline, and I think just talking about those mentors that were just so impactful in terms of shaping your journey I'd love to understand if that was something that you knew when you were choosing some of those roles, or is it something that became evident in the role? But I'm just wondering, in terms of all of those different choices that you've made, how you assessed yourself, Yes, I'm going to take this role. And obviously you've shared a little bit about how it drove your growth, but if you could share a little bit more about that, I think our listeners would learn from you.

Caroline Strachan:

It was scribbling as we go as ideas pop into my head to ask people companies. Have a really simple way of choosing a job or choosing a role. And it comes from earlier in my career. There was a defining moment where I was offered three jobs at the same time. Again, naive, that's a really common word through my career, I think. I wasn't a hundred percent happy in the job that I was in. And so I thought I'll go out and I will I'll see what else is out there. Applied for three jobs and got all three jobs and then felt sick trying to make the decision. I'm really struggled with the decision. I made a really good decision. I ended up in HRG, who were another really people focused company. But if I look back at that decision, and the one after that, and the one after that, and the one after that, there's a real recurring theme for me. Which is really simply, firstly, the tasks you do, so the work you do on a day to day basis. Secondly, the leader you do it with. Now I could bring in peers here as well, the people around you, and I'll come on to that in a minute. And then thirdly, the company you do it for, do you really believe in what they do? Are you really aligned with their values? Because there's been times in my career where it's felt really uncomfortable. And then I've realized with hindsight, our values just weren't aligned. So if anyone listening thinks of those three things, you can really do a quick check on the every single day when I sit down at my desk or whatever type of work you do. Am I looking forward to what I'm about to do in that day? And the tasks I do is the role something that I can really enjoy? The people around me, are they people who are stretching me? Are they interesting? Am I learning from them? Is the leader supporting me? Are they developing me? Are they going out to bat for me? And then finally, the company I spoke about shared values, but do you really believe in why they exist? Do you believe in their product? And if you think of a company like AstraZeneca really making a difference to patients lives? I was so So wrapped up in what an amazing difference they made in the world. I had really brilliant leaders and I was leading this huge global innovative program. What a dream job. And then I think of moving on to American express lead in their consulting group. Dream job plus, right? We've got hundreds, if not thousands of companies that we're leading their travel programs. So I had what everything that I loved about my tasks at AstraZeneca, but I had it on a much bigger scale. I think the risk piece, that's all the positives. The risk piece is when you need to take a decision and you really have no clue where it's going to land because it's something so different. Um, I did that once in my career where it was a really bad decision. I landed and I was out within three weeks. That's not on my CV. That's not on LinkedIn. Don't tend to talk about that one. But very quickly I realized I was completely oversold in the interview process and it was the wrong thing for me. So I got out very quickly. I, the other biggest risk I guess I've taken from a change perspective would be leaving my big corporate job with all of the benefits and status and all of that stuff that comes with it, your corner office and all that stuff, to start a company. And not only was I taking the job leap, but my husband had just taken a similar leap. He'd gone from, comfortable job to contracting. We had twin two year olds and we'd just bought our forever home. In a way I look back and I think, what on earth was I thinking? But my co founder, Paul Tillstone, was so persuasive and knocked down every barrier I tried putting in front of him and made the leap. And oh my goodness, eight years later, thank goodness. Best move of my career.

Dorothy Dowling:

So I think you, those themes about The work, it was around the people and then it was around the leadership. I think that really very intentional assessment in terms of how you fit is really important as people think about that career journey. And I'm sure has been very impactful in driving your success, Caroline, because you were very intentionable about making sure that you were creating that successful foundation when you made some of those choices. Thank you for sharing that. I think that was really helpful. You're welcome. I'm wondering if I can also talk a little bit about your just commitment, your commitment to the industry, your commitment to women you're just you're someone who has really made some big I don't have another word other than commitment in terms of how you give to others. So I'm just wondering if you can share a little bit about how. You have made those decisions about how you build and nurture some of those relationships and this whole commitment that you have to giving back, if you can share how that has shaped your career journey as well.

Caroline Strachan:

Sure. Do you know, it all started and it's really fascinating. It comes from playing sport when I was a child. You always took your turn to take the oranges for the part time or quarter breaks. And I remember thinking in my early thirties, it's about time I bought the oranges. Can I. I hadn't felt like I'd given enough back. And it actually was interesting. It was just as I moved over from more of from meetings and events into the business travel space. And I didn't know anything about business travel, but I knew a lot about meetings and events. And I met with Mark Avery, who was with PwC, still global prolific work very well known leader. And I knew him from my meetings and events days. And I said to him is there a way I could help out? Could I volunteer some time? I really feel it's time to bring the oranges. I don't know anything about business travel, but I've got a lot of energy and, maybe I could help managing an event or maybe I could help with some admin. That's literally what I was offering was admin. I remember it clearly. And then a week later, I got a phone call asking me, would I stand for chairman? And I literally almost fell off my chair. I was like, what? How? Why? I like, why on earth are you calling me? This just doesn't, I almost felt like a prank call. And anyway, long story short I ended up having the conversation that I ended up getting selected. And I ended up as the chairman of the Institute of Travel Management in the UK, the GBTA partner in the UK. Now. And an article was written about me at the time. And it was really funny. Martin Ferguson, who's now at Amex GBT, an amazing PR and writer at the time. He wrote something like he'd been outside the conference and he'd heard some people saying. Who is this woman? Like, where on earth did they find her? Or something like that. And so he wanted to do this interview with me to try and find out who on earth this woman was that they'd found. And I think the reason they selected me is because I had no preconceived ideas about what this industry should be. And I had, All of these examples of innovations I've created at Cisco in the M& E space where I just hadn't given a care about what had gone before. I just went with here's what my customer wants. Here's what we're going to go build. Come on, let's go build it together. And so they probably felt a bit of energy and a bit of attitude. So that starting point, I think I've then just learnt. Or you get hooked. Maybe that's another thing. Maybe I got a little bit hooked to volunteerism. To always be bringing the oranges, always what is it that you can give back. So whether that's mentoring someone one to one who is highly talented and they can't see the potential in themselves yet. So I see a bit of me in there. and go, okay, someone helped me. I need to make sure that I really give back there. Or whether it's the variety of volunteering I've done over the years and now sitting on the GBTA foundation board. It is again about being really intentional. I think I have a set of skills that this particular person or this particular situation or this industry needs. How can I best apply them? But now what I also do being a bit later on in my career is whenever anyone asks me to do something, I always stop and think who else could do it because I think it's really important. You and I we're both going to get asked to do things because we're senior women and you need more women on stage we've both had those kinds of invitations. And so I think it's really important that I stop and say, hang on a minute, I don't think you need me, I think you need this other woman who is amazing, or indeed this other man who is amazing. I think you need them to fill that spot. And so all of the media and all the stage and all of the volunteering opportunities that come my way, I try to redistribute them. Firstly, because I don't have enough time to do all of them. But secondly, I think it's a really important part of industry volunteering is that you don't hog the space. You create space for others.

Dorothy Dowling:

No, I think that role of being an advocate for others and helping others pave the way for others for some of those opportunities, Caroline, has really been a hallmark of who you are. So thank you for sharing that. I'm wondering if you can share a little bit about how the volunteerism part of your career has built your network and helped also you in terms of your business, because that's the other piece that I think individuals would appreciate learning from you.

Caroline Strachan:

I guess the most direct example is I was the chairman of ITM when I was approached by AstraZeneca. They would not have known who I was.

Dorothy Dowling:

Okay, that's a very clear example. Thank you.

Caroline Strachan:

Since then, I just think for anyone, in any role wanting to maybe promote their own selves and what they have to bring on their own company. By giving back, you can raise profile. I would just question anyone that's the only reason why they're doing it, because I just don't think it comes from the best of places. So for instance, Sue Jones from Inca IKEA in Sweden just got named as the ITM Chairman's Award and there was this list of things that she's delivered and why they created that recognition. You never would have known it was her behind the scenes creating all of that. Yet there she was, this quiet volunteer wanting to give back and delivering all of those things. amazing, but she's not out there shouting about it. She was actually quite surprised apparently when her name got called out. So for me, that's what volunteering is. It's doing it because you actually want to make a difference versus you're doing it for your own self promotion or self benefit.

Dorothy Dowling:

No, very well said. So there's two areas that I want to make sure we get to Caroline because I know you have made some very intentional decisions about parenting and your commitment to your family. So work life balance is always one of these areas that all parents and quite frankly, I think everyone in terms of their life span, health span is being challenged with today. So I'm wondering if there's anything that you might offer the audience in terms of how you have focused on maintaining some degree of health and wellness and then also this commitment to your family.

Caroline Strachan:

Thank you for asking that question because it is so important. It's my number one priority over and above anything else. I think it's really at my core. If I don't get the balance right, then it all falls apart for me. I have a real strong desire to make a difference in the working world. I have a really strong desire to be the best mom I can be. Sometimes those two things clash. So I have constructed a way of my children understanding that my career is important to me because I think it's important for them to know that, but I've also constructed a way. that my company understands how important my family life is. Now, of course, anyone listening could go she owns the company. So that's super easy for her to say that, but I think it's actually even more important that I say it and demonstrate it because it then shows that like the shadow you create as a leader, it creates the permission for everyone else to be like that within your company as well. And so any leaders listening, when you cut a webinar off at four o'clock and say, Hey, I have to finish now because I'm going to collect my children from cricket. I have to go now because I need to, I have care responsibilities with my father. So I need to go. Whatever those personal moments are, the more you say it out loud. There's a really brilliant campaign in London at the moment, Parenting Out Loud. It's just brilliant. Say those things, especially if you're a man in the workplace. Please. It's like parenting out loud and then sharing the emotional load back at home. There are so many people that, that do so much. For their families, but don't talk about it in the workplace. And I think if we could just get past that. So some very specific advice as to how I do it. Many talk about work life balance. I flip it and talk about life work balance. So I always start with life first. And I actually have an exercise that I do. And I encourage my team to do as well. Blank sheet of paper. lines through it, you end up with nine boxes. What are the most important things to you in life? And it will be different for every single person. So of course my children are in there, my husband's in there, going to the gym is in there, playing netball is in there, eating nutritious food is in there. There'll be a variety of things and it'll be different for everybody. And then you take the number of waking hours that are available to you after you have first started with how much sleep you need a night. And it's so straightforward yet so many people miss it. So I need eight hours a night. So I start with eight hours. So what does that leave me in a day? Leaves me with 16 hours. Okay, so I've got 16 hours to play with. How am I going to use those 16 hours? And I literally start by plotting everything personal before I go anywhere near work. And so that means on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday, not Friday. I'll come back to that Monday and Wednesday. I go to the gym and so therefore I don't start work till 10 o'clock. For ages, I kept letting work get in the way of me getting to the gym. And yet actually going to the gym is what gives me a clear head, what helps me turn up, be the best version of me. So every single piece you can do, and I work a four day week, I don't work on Fridays. You asked me to come and have this conversation on a Friday and I had to say, sorry, I can't, I don't work on Fridays because I reserved that time for me and for my children. Being maniacal about the planning of what the blocks of things you want. And for me, after my children, it's joy and connection with friends, joyful experiences, fill your life with those things as much as you can. However, and they don't have to be things that cost any money. And then put work in, and it is fundamentally different.

Dorothy Dowling:

I think that element of taking a very conscious approach to your diary is really important. And I know there's even more literature about that in terms of thinking about your lifespan and being very intentional about how long you might be here and making sure you don't have any regrets, Caroline. But thank you for. Sharing that level of detail because I certainly think you're an incredible ambassador for all parents and leaders in terms of making the choices that are going to make you not have regrets on that dash line that you referenced earlier. So I'm wondering if you could also speak about your public speaking because you've been very intentional about how you've honed your ability to communicate and I know you referenced your TED talk. But I just I would love for you to. Really share that journey with our listeners and viewers, because I think they could learn a lot from you in that regard, too.

Caroline Strachan:

Thank you. It's really fascinating. I get asked quite a lot about public speaking and how I became so confident and how I can do it so well. And I make it look so easy. And it's the last comment that I really struggle with. I'm like, Oh, my goodness. If only you knew the hours of effort that's gone into getting to that point. But I guess that's. the same as many things in life, right? Many people don't only see the results, not the effort. So I guess the quick answer is I've just learned to love public speaking and then and not fear it. Because I definitely was in the fear camp at the beginning and the more you do it, the easier it gets. But the most intentional part of public speaking for me has been when I knew it would be a really big part of my job, like coming to join a session with you today, up to I don't know, 7, 000 people at a big convention is get the training. I wouldn't be expected to go and drive a bus without being taught how to drive it, right? It's exactly the same. Why would anyone expect you to get on stage and deliver an amazing speech if you haven't been taught how to do it? So, I spent time with Raja in London. That's the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art. It doesn't matter what provider it is, but find someone local to you. And I actually became a bit of a junkie for their sessions. I loved them so much. I think I took every single class they did. And then I had a presentation coach who worked with me. Whenever there was a big presentation coming up, I would work with them. For my TED Talk, I had someone working with me. For my TED Talk of 18 minutes, I did more than 100 hours of rehearsal. I think the, I guess the message in there is, it is absolutely all in the training and the effort and the rehearsal. And my top tip would be physically, there is a massive, there is such a big difference if you remember these four things. It's from an amazing woman called Sarah Blumenau, who's our presence coach for our RODA team. It's F H S B, which is feet. Head, shoulders, breathe. So I've been doing that while I've been talking to you. I actually wasn't at the beginning of the call and then I realized this doesn't feel that comfortable. I need to reset. So my feet are planted firmly on the ground. My head is lifted up. My shoulders are back and then you breathe. And if you do that every time you walk out on stage, I can guarantee you, you will feel 100 percent better than if you just walked out on stage and went, okay, I'm just going to try and mumble my way through this. And then I think my final top tip would be, Just know the first line that's coming out of your mouth and be really clear about it. Because if you fumble your first line, it then all falls apart. So if you can get your feet planted and you can breathe and know your first line, it takes the fear away.

Dorothy Dowling:

Caroline, I'm a great admirer of just the way you bring that to the stage. But what I would offer back to you is that it really has been the investment of time and effort that you have made in accomplishing the capabilities that you bring to the stage. And I think you're right in that. I think a lot of people assume communication is something we just do. But I think the focus that Took to actually grow your professional competency and the rehearsal time and the effort that you put in terms of preparation is something that really distinguishes your ability when you deliver in any kind of environment. So I'm a great admirer of what you do, but I certainly think everyone should never underestimate how much effort you put to making sure that you drove a good outcome for the audience. And I think that shows the respect you have for the audience. And I also think it is that commitment that you have to yourself in terms of bringing your best person, your best self to everything that you do. So thank you for sharing that. We're coming up near the end of our interview, Caroline, and we always ask people if there is any final world word of advice could be to your younger self or anything that you would like to leave with our audience. You've given us so much already, but is there any other final thoughts that you'd like to share?

Caroline Strachan:

You're why, but why do you do what you do? Be really clear on your personal purpose in life, and then everything else falls in around it. So for me, mine is to help others achieve more than they knew possible. Whether that's one of our roaders, one of our clients, someone I mentor in the industry, really achieving more than they knew possible with their personal growth, whether that's with one of our clients achieving more than they knew possible with their travel or meetings program, or our industry, if I think macro level, but this is like really big stuff, the industry becoming more than it knew possible. I'd love to find my little way of helping there. And I guess you can summarize that with, if you just need to know that living your dash What it truly means to you and go make it happen.

Dorothy Dowling:

Thank you. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Thank you for being so well prepared for this interview, Caroline, and thank you for all that you do for the industry. I'm being such a great ambassador for leaders and women in just the way you bring yourself to everything that you take on. So thank you.

Caroline Strachan:

Thank you, Dorothy.

Dorothy Dowling:

Yeah. So thinking to our audience if beyond thanking Caroline, I just want to say, if you have enjoyed this interview, I hope you'll come visit us on our website, DEI advisors. org, where you'll see webcasts and podcasts from other industry leaders that will empower your knowledge and feel your spirit. So we hope to see you there. Thank you.