It's Personal Stories, A Hospitality Podcast

Jacqueline Gifford, Editor-in-Chief, Travel & Leisure Interviewed by Rachel Humphrey

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Jacqui discusses her love of books, how living and traveling internationally have impacted her leadership, and how she manages her heavy travel schedule. She shares her strategies for effective public speaking and which skill she thinks is important in any industry but also as a life skill. Jacqui also talks about the efforts behind increasing diversity in the travel industry and also what she would tell her younger self.

Rachel Humphrey:

I am Rachel Humphrey with DEI Advisors, a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering personal success in the hospitality industry, and I am delighted to be joined today on the show by Jackie Gifford, the Editor in Chief for Travel and Leisure. Jackie, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. I am really excited to dive into your perspective on a lot of your journey and also the insights that you've learned along the way. And I want to jump right in and start with your journey to leadership. One of the things that I really love in the hospitality industry is that people can carve their own path and no two are the same in any way. So tell me a little bit about your background, how you came up and how you got to where you are today. And if there's any pivotal moments that you think really impacted that trajectory.

Jacqui Gifford:

Oh, my God. Okay. This is a big question. First of all, I like to tell people that I was such, I'm a big reader. So the reason I got into journalism is just I, from a young age I've loved books. I've loved writing and I am also a big traveler. So I was born in Japan. I lived in Saudi Arabia. I lived in the Philadelphia area, not quite as glamorous as Japan, but my, because my parents work, we traveled quite extensively. And when I graduated from college somehow through a little bit of luck, but also just Hard work. In all honesty, I was able to get a job in publishing that combined my love for reading. And then eventually I made my way from Vanity Fair and other publications to travel and leisure, and it fits my background, my strengths, my interests perfectly. And it is a dream job. Travel and leisure is America's largest travel brand, the globe's largest travel brand. And I love telling stories about the world. You asked to really. Pertinent question about, I'd say path to leadership challenges. In all honesty, the pandemic was the hardest thing I've ever had to do and work through as a leader. I had only been editor in chief for about a little over a year. When COVID hit New York, I had to coordinate moving everybody to work from home here. I had to come up with a strategy as to how we were going to get people eventually out into the field to report and write and Photograph things safely. And I'd had to figure out a way to get our readers to stay engaged. So it just felt like the world was so fragile. Challenged at that moment. And you just, I just had to get in and do the work and here I am and travel majors doing incredibly well. I've been in the role for a little bit over five years. So I would say, yes, that was my greatest challenge by far.

Rachel Humphrey:

That's incredible. And the hospitality industry hit so dramatically by covid and hearing the resilience and the adaptability and so many incredible characteristics of leaders across the industry. You don't think about when you have a travel publication and travel is shut down the tremendous impact there. So I appreciate your sharing that. One of the things that is also to me very unique but incredibly special about the hospitality Fatality industry is the ability to work internationally to come to or go to different countries for your career progression. You have experienced that in the upbringing side. But how has that international experience for you helped your leadership? Do you have advice for people who might be considering an international opportunity?

Jacqui Gifford:

I think the best thing, first of all, when you live abroad, there are some people I think it's just not, I have a family members who have stayed. I'm from Philadelphia, who've never left Philadelphia. And it's not for everybody, but I think that for people who are very I don't want to say curious, but they're just open sometimes to trying new things, or it could be a life stage that you're at where you're like, I'm ready for change. I know myself, I'll use myself as an example. When I was I was younger and I loved being, going to elementary school and middle school for a little bit and Philadelphia. And then all of a sudden I was like, I'm, my dad said, we're moving to Japan. And I said, okay, I'm totally ready for this. I just felt like I was ready to see new things. I had outgrown the environment I was in. I wanted to make new friends. And I think for anybody who's looking to build a career in hospitality, I think that's one question I would ask yourself. Are you ready for a challenge in that? It is challenging to move to a new destination. There's a comfort from being at home and the safety of your surroundings. You know what you're getting into. So are you ready for a challenge? I think the benefits far outweigh the negatives in that you can learn a new language. You can interact with people. People who look and sound different than you. And I think by that very nature, by that very experience, you somehow learn to become more empathetic and tolerant and just your global perspective. That whole sense of meeting new people and other cultures really informs you as a human being and informs your perspective. So I love, I loved living in new places. And then from a career perspective, I travel all the time for work. And I think that the, every business trip I take, every personal trip I take, I'm always just looking to meet again, meet new people, hear their perspectives, and whether that's on a business trip, or if you were actually having to move to a destination, it's that it just builds tolerance. And I think understanding for how beautiful this world really is.

Rachel Humphrey:

Yeah. It's incredible too, that I, even as a younger woman, person, you were able to see it as an opportunity, not as an obstacle or a challenge or other things. There were probably lots of emotions, but that you jumped at an opportunity and that probably also guides you in the other things you talked about traveling a lot for your career, which makes perfect sense. There are a lot of us who in the hospitality industry are on the road more than we are at home. Do you have any Insights or things that you do to help you. I know you have a family. We'll talk about that in a couple of minutes, but do you have strategies that you implement to manage business travel for yourself?

Jacqui Gifford:

Yeah, I do. So I try to here's the little secret. If I can luckily fly business class on a plane that helps to be able to sleep. If that's not possible, then I try to actually power through as much as I can that first day even if I do manage to sleep a little bit on the plane. But here's an example. My husband and son and I went to Paris. This is a little bit ago and we got to Paris and We were totally shot, but I really pushed us all to stay awake because ultimately I felt like taking a nap. We would have been out for four hours. And so trying to power through and stay awake and go to bed at a decent hour is a good solution. I also think another strategy is trying to find a local restaurant or a local market that Feels like, it's casual and I try to, sometimes when you're in a new place, like the last thing you want to do is have a really formal meal, you want to get something that feels like you're in the local community. So I always try and seek out experiences like that. And to that, my, to that end also take public transportation because getting to know that it's like the easiest way to get to know the heart of a city, or at least, throw on a pair of sneakers and do a great walking tour. And from a. I'd say from like a mental health perspective, I also love to pack personal items that mean something to me, a good book, something that, means something from home. So there's that like connective tissue. So it feels like I'm in a new place, but I'm still thinking about and have a connection to my environment. Back.

Rachel Humphrey:

I also travel with a personal item from home because I think it gives me that feeling. It's like a security blanket that I have. Yeah, exactly.

Jacqui Gifford:

I was gonna say, it's like a animal, but I try with this little silver dish that I bought that carries my jewelry and things like that. So it's more about like. How do you still, and I put it by my nightside table just to bedside table to feel like, oh, I might be by myself. I might be, with a colleague, but I still, I still have this connective again that connective thread to. New York City.

Rachel Humphrey:

I like the idea to of public transportation and a local restaurant, maybe something a little bit more casual to really take advantage of your new surroundings. You mentioned both sleep and mental health and sharing that. And one of the things as a die hard travel and leisure reader and fan and you and I've talked about this. One of the things I have loved to see is such an emphasis on self care and wellness in the magazine and in the magazine. Personal travel and business travel and these other things. So I'm going to turn the tables from what you advise readers to yourself. Are you, do you consider yourself attentive to your self care? Has that always been the case? Has that progressed over your career?

Jacqui Gifford:

I would say I don't do as good of a job at that as I should, but my, I think I have a good balance of trying to, I go to the gym, do classes that I enjoy just because it gives me a mental break again, reading. I, like I mentioned from, I loved reading since I was a child. So having a book for me as a real comfort and a break from reality. And I still prefer to read real hard cover books or, paperback books, but not on a Kindle or anything, a tablet. And I think where I struggle is oftentimes in those moments when I'm on a trip and I should be. Switching off my phone or trying to decompress. I probably don't do as good a job of that. And certainly at moments when I'm at the dinner table, I think that's one habit I'm trying to to learn from is putting down my phone and really being more absorbed in conversation. That really is a part of mental health and wellness is. Balancing the right amount of technology use and private time. Another thing that I enjoy from a wellness perspective is trying to like literally trying new stuff. So whether it's, I was in Mexico recently and I tried a Temezcal, which I had tried years ago, but I tried one at Maroma resort, which felt totally different from the. experience I had previously. I've tried cryotherapy before. I was in Rome last year and I tried this biohacking treatment at the six senses where they put, compression socks on your legs and it really helped to stimulate circulation, get the blood flowing again. I love trying all that stuff. Sometimes it, it impacts you. Sometimes it doesn't. Doesn't and it doesn't work, different things work for different people, but I like just knowing what's out there and what's possible.

Rachel Humphrey:

If you tackle the technology at dinner or the balance, then I'm going to have you back on. Okay. Good. I don't know if

Jacqui Gifford:

These are big things to tackle. I don't know if I'm going to get to them all, but it will try.

Rachel Humphrey:

That's great. One of the things I always find interesting in talking to people who are print journalists at heart is many tell me I went into print journalism because it was behind the scenes. And then the career progresses. And either there's more public speaking or now with video blogging and all of these other aspects of journalism. Of journalism, they are front and center. And so I'm curious that you do a lot of public speaking. Are you comfortable with it? Have you taken training for it? Do you prepare in a similar way

Jacqui Gifford:

each time? I have taken training for it. Part of it, I think I did some of it when I was younger and it just came to me a little bit more naturally maybe than some other people. I never got into. Journalism to necessarily be behind the scenes though. That's an interesting point. You're right. I do think that's some some people's strength, but I worked, actually, I worked for a little bit of a time at okay magazine, which, It's still around when it launched here. It was, in the UK, it had just come over. This is like back in 2005. And I actually took the job because I wanted to be out in the field reporting and going to events and meeting celebrities and doing interviews. So that part, that probably gave me a huge, like the actual conversation piece and like being out and. Getting to know people probably got me more comfortable than maybe some other people might have felt and who were starting out their career in magazines. And then it just evolved from there. When I started travel and leisure, I started doing television and it. Went from there. And I think that's the one bit of advice I would give people is that you do have to practice at it. I practice at home. I talk through my talking points. I think through, okay, what could be a curveball question that this person might ask me? And Am I prepared to, am I prepared to answer it? If I'm not prepared to answer it, what's a response that's appropriate? These sorts of things, I think, just take time and experience. And also if you know the material, you should feel confident going out. And talking about it, that's really it. Like I would never put anybody in a situation where they didn't actually feel comfortable knowing the material to go out on stage.

Rachel Humphrey:

I like the concept of practicing and preparation, but comfort with you're comfortable with the topic that you're speaking on. So being selective in, in where you choose to speak in which opportunities you accept, for sure. As each of us progresses, sometimes from a. One career to the next, sometimes from one role to the next, even at the same company, we become acutely aware that there might be a skill that we're going to need to be successful that we don't have. And we have to set out to develop it. Has, have you encountered along the way, either a group of skills or a subject matter that you're like, you know what, to really be successful, I'm going to have to be curious and learn how to do this.

Jacqui Gifford:

I think one of the more Certainly in leadership. One of the more underrated underappreciated things is just the fundamentals of good old math sounds crazy, but we all have calculators on our phone and, but understanding a spreadsheet and where the where the money's coming in, where the money's going out, if you're running a small business, if you're running a restaurant and a bar and you're looking at your, again, holistically, if you. I'm in media, but that's something that I've learned over the years. And I, again, I felt comfortable doing it before. And I think that skill is what I'm sticking to a budget. All of these things are general life skills that I think people might struggle with at times, but in business they're crucial. And I think that they might be underappreciated in a variety of ways. And it's like a Fundamental understanding of how things, how the math works, how the business gets done.

Rachel Humphrey:

I like the, how the math works versus doing the math. Cause you're right. Calculators on phones and other things make the actual math much easier.

Jacqui Gifford:

Yeah. I'm not sitting here like long division, but more of the idea that, you're running a. A business or a brand or a hospitality group and all everybody in who's involved in it should feel like they, they have a stake in the game and understand why things are working or not working as the case may be.

Rachel Humphrey:

So not saying to our kids, don't worry about math. You'll never use that.

Jacqui Gifford:

I think that's a crazy thing to say because it's it's not again, like I took calculus and I'm not using that in my day to day life But it taught me a lot of other things that problem solving skills that I think are applicable in other areas.

Rachel Humphrey:

And I like the idea of developing life skills at the same time that you're developing career skills. You mentioned leadership, and I have a couple of different questions actually on this. And one is you interview a lot of very successful female leaders in travel. I'm curious if you notice any common traits in their. personalities in their leadership that you think might help contribute to their

Jacqui Gifford:

success? That's a great question. Common traits. I don't. It's a hard one, actually, because I think that there's a lot of things that women get put into certain buckets, right? As leadership, just because of our gender. And I don't want to generalize too much, but I will say that anytime I've met a female leader who is a mother has children at home. I'm one of them. I think. It just naturally comes up in conversation how how you have to juggle and turn your brain off in different ways and turn it on and I think that skill of multitasking is critical. And I've heard many, again, I'm not, I don't want to generalize, but many female leaders have shared with me that is something that they struggle with, but also having children and balancing that family life and that business life has helped them be better. Leaders. I would argue that's helped me be a better leader. I have to prioritize when I'm going to give my time, who I'm going to give my time to and when it's going to happen and be pretty decisive about it.

Rachel Humphrey:

In your own leadership, as far as it's evolution goes, is there, are there things that you think you've gotten better at over time? Are there lessons you've learned maybe in the last year that you think Really impact. I know you talked about covid, which has been an incredible lesson for all of us in a lot of leadership styles.

Jacqui Gifford:

Yeah, I think there are times now just with the way of the world where you have to look, be open to change and new things and let some things go and decide. Okay, I'm more, I need to make sure that there's somebody Waiting in the wings who can take on this responsibility in my absence, if I'm on a business trip or if I'm on vacation or things like that, like getting good at trusting people to do the right thing. That's a skill that I think I'm still, everybody struggles with this. Cause as a leader, you want to feel like you have your eyes on everything, but you. Honestly can't all the time. And another skill I think that's important is just mentorship and personal connection and taking time to really sit with people no matter the age and position and just give them a platform to talk to you. And that's also something I struggle with because everybody's time is precious to them. But it is a valuable thing. You feel the impact on the organization when you. Invest in the time.

Rachel Humphrey:

I love that. And that actually segues perfectly into male or female. Really some people struggle with advocating for themselves. They're great advocates for others but don't necessarily turn that on themselves. If you have someone on your team or someone on in your support system who comes to you and Is interested in whether it's a promotion or raise a new opportunity. What types of guidance do you offer for how to best position themselves for success?

Jacqui Gifford:

That's a good question. I always, I think this is just true in general of workplace dynamics. I don't want to speak to anything specific here in that it's just that I think that. There's always the chance that, when you're, you want to advocate for yourself. And I think it's, you just need to be really clear about what all your accomplishments are. That's what I do all the time. And in the sense that I know what the North star is. I know what my goals are and I make sure that I hold to those goals and think to myself, Am I meeting those goals? Am I exceeding those goals? Am I falling short of those goals? And just in that moment, whenever people are thinking about their career and where they are, I think knowing that you're clear on what the mandate is, what you should actually be doing in your position, but also again, thinking critically about yourself and how you're actually living up to those. And that's something I think about for myself all the time.

Rachel Humphrey:

Do you find that some have trouble, I'll say celebrating their own successes or touting themselves or, when you talk about advocating for yourself, there's a difference between what's called bragging or, being obnoxious or something else, but really making sure both that people know what you're doing and doing well and visibility and personal brand and all of these other things of that type of balance.

Jacqui Gifford:

Again, I don't want to speak to anybody specific. I'm not speaking to anybody specifically here. What I can say confidently is that is true of larger. Workforce globally, that just, there are some people who don't feel as comfortable speaking speaking up for themselves. And that is just a, that is a common challenge that a lot of people have to work on. And part of it, I think is also working closely with your manager, your team to understand what the actual specific goals are. If you're doing the right thing or not, and then raising your hand and taking credit for the work that you've done and communication, which I think is something really key coming out of COVID. I think we all still are struggling with how do you balance the virtual world versus the in person world, whether, and it's in a variety of fields, how do you do that and do it thoughtfully and then make sure that you're getting recognized for all that you're doing. That's great.

Rachel Humphrey:

We hear a lot nowadays about different terms for head trash, imposter syndrome people that are, that find their own self doubt to sometimes be their biggest challenge or their biggest obstacle. I'm curious if you experience any of that, if you have strategies for overcoming it in a moment where maybe you're questioning your own competencies or leadership.

Jacqui Gifford:

Yeah, everybody struggles with self doubt. I think you I think over time you get to know and understand That you don't have to rush to make a decision to sometimes it's I'd like to take a step back, give it a few days and think over something. And then if I really still feel like, okay this needs to be addressed, or I think that I definitely am in the right here are actually, what? Maybe I can let that go. I think sometimes waiting and assessing and not rushing to judgment is probably a way to overcome feelings of self doubt, like really taking the time to assess a situation and just in general. The other. Bit of advice I would give people is you're in a position. Imposter syndrome is fairly common. You're in a position, but you got there for a reason and it's okay to have those feelings, but at the same time, people can feed off of that and feel your energy. It's okay to know what you don't know or not. You can. Admit to also not having an answer. That's why I was saying like, it's okay to be like, you know what? I don't have an answer for you today. Let me think on it. Or let me get some more information and get back to you. And that's completely fine. You don't have to have the answer to everything.

Rachel Humphrey:

I like what you started off saying too, about everybody does, because I think that's what some some individuals, some rising leaders do. Forget, regardless of where you are in your career path, people still experience imposter syndrome. It's not something that one day you're like, Oh

Jacqui Gifford:

No. It's far from it. I think it happens quite often. people.

Rachel Humphrey:

You mentioned earlier you're traveling with your husband and your son and I've read in the magazine that sometimes you get to take him on trips or write about trips that he's been on with you. How has it been for you as a working mom? You said you come in contact with a lot of other working moms as well, really figuring out how to navigate the right, I always, I don't like the balance phrase, but the right harmony between Your career and being a mom and how has that impacted maybe how you spend your time? Your days are your time.

Jacqui Gifford:

I think that the hardest part is making sure that you have some precious I don't say precious. That's a little strange of a word, but some, something that's sacred to your family, whether it's like a dinner hour or, I take my son, Every day to school. And that's great. Like it's a moment in time that we have together. And I then take the subway down to the office or, go on a trip or what have you, but we pretty regularly have that routine. I know what he's doing in school. I feel connected to many aspects of his life. There are some things that I have missed over time though, and everybody has that paying or that guilt. But at the same time, the benefits are. Get to do these wonderful things and take him on these wonderful trips. So I think when I look at his life and what he gets to do, I'm very clear that to him, that like mom gets to do all these things for work. And then the benefit for you is you get to see the world too. And I think that's the best part about kids are pretty resilient. And they, I think when you explain why you're gone to them, They might be upset, but they also understand that this is the way of the world. And there's so many families with two working parents. It's I think everybody feels like they're missing something or dropping some ball. This is the common struggle, but I feel like I I, Have to believe that I'm doing a good job and try not to overanalyze it too much.

Rachel Humphrey:

I love hearing about the special traditions or the special moments. Cause I hear that more and more from people. They're all different. Everybody's non negotiable time together. I really love hearing what people are doing with that. Jackie, we are gonna run short on time. I want to wrap up with a couple of things. One of my favorite questions to ask and be asked is always our advice to our younger selves. I do believe that we are all works in progress, but reflection is a part of that. So as you sit here today, what do you tell 21 year old Jackie? Either something you wish you knew then or about how things end up for you today.

Jacqui Gifford:

Oh my God, that, that is, that's tough. I think I would tell her that there would be way more challenges. Then there are a lot of challenges to come, and they just might not be what you would have expected. And to my earlier point, you don't necessarily have the answer every time, and you just have to trust your gut.

Rachel Humphrey:

I always love to share with our audience why I have asked somebody to join us. I have just recently met you over the phone through an introduction of a mutual. Acquaintance and I was immediately impacted by as busy as you are with all of the things you have going on when I reached out, you were like, absolutely, let's get on a call. Let's talk about what's happening with women in the travel and hospitality industries. And it really reminded me how connected we all are in. these type of shared goals. But I'm curious from your vantage point, what are you seeing in the travel sector in the hospitality sector as far as the drive toward greater diversity at the leadership

Jacqui Gifford:

level? I think that some companies have Made some strides. There's no question. Is there more to be done? Sure. There's no, it is a global challenge across many industries. I think what one thing that I've noticed in particular with hospitality is that we're trying to make sure that the diversity of the audience is also reflected in the conversation. In advertising, in editorial and marketing and the visuals of what travel is today. Are so key and important. So I would say that's been a big step forward and people who have been historically underrepresented if they don't see themselves in traditional media spaces, then that's not great. So how do we fix that? I think we, as a brand have done a Great job of that. Nothing's perfect, but that I know we've paid deep attention to both in terms of commissioning writers and photographers and illustrators to really show, the diversity of the country and serve our audience in a better way. But I always think there's more work that can be done.

Rachel Humphrey:

I love the intentionality behind it, too, of just saying we know that this is important and so we're going to really set out to do it. That's a great example of leadership. As we wind down, keeping in mind the motto of DEI advisors to empower personal success, I'm wondering if you have one final piece of advice you'd like to offer for our audience.

Jacqui Gifford:

I would. Offer the advice that the best way to walk into a meeting into a situation is to be any situation. That's new is to be prepared. And I said this earlier, if you know your stuff and you feel confident in the material. You will do just fine.

Rachel Humphrey:

That's an incredible way to wrap up. I'm Jackie. I'm very appreciative for your time today for your insights for sharing with us for saying yes. When I asked to our audience. I also thank you for tuning in. We know you have a lot of ways to spend your time. If you enjoyed today's time with Jackie, we hope you'll visit D. E. I. Advisors dot org to hear from nearly 200 other industry leaders who have shared their paths to leadership. Thank you And the lessons they've learned along the way. But Jackie, thank you so much. We really appreciate it and grateful for your leadership in the industry.

Jacqui Gifford:

Thank you so much.