Jonathon S. Zink, Chief Operating Officer, The BHN Group interviewed by Rachel Humphrey

Jonathon shares what he's learned from living all over the world. He talks about how several company mottos have, in ways, evolved into his own personal mantra. Jonathon also discusses how running is an important part of his business travel experience, he relies on his network to keep growing and learning, he perceives taking risks and tackling challenges, and his leadership has developed over time.

Transcript

Rachel Humphrey: 0:01

I am Rachel Humphrey with DEI Advisors. We are a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering personal success in the hospitality industry. And I'm really excited to have, join me on the program today, Jonathan Zink with the BHN Group. Jonathan, welcome to the program.

Jonathon S. Zink: 0:17

Thank you, Rachel. It's always a pleasure having a conversation with you. And I'd also like to congratulate yourself, David Kong, and the entire DEI advisors team for making such an impact globally. Thank you.

Rachel Humphrey: 0:29

I appreciate that. Jonathan, we are going to jump right in because I have a lot of questions for you. You've got a lot of really, great experience and some insights coming out of those that I think will be great for our audience. But as everybody knows, I love to start with the journey to leadership because one of the things that I think is really special about the hospitality industry is that no two paths need to be the same. You can really carve out what works for you. So tell us a little bit about your path to leadership and maybe some of the points that you think were really instrumental in getting you where you are today.

Jonathon S. Zink: 0:59

No, thank you, Rachel. So I grew up in upper state New York. Originally, we moved to Michigan around. I was 10 years old. And the reason I mentioned that is because it helps set a foundation for my belief in my mind. Says I went through my career. I've always focused on core purpose, went from company to company. I tended to focus on a core purpose that I believed in, and I believed I could lead that company if I got to that position. Early in my career in Michigan, my parents instilled in me, if I want to succeed, I got to work hard. And eventually I went to Michigan State where I followed that purpose. Michigan State Spartans will, which is tenacity and heart. To succeed. And so it fit very nicely with me. Believe it or not, I went into Michigan state thinking I was going to be a computer science major. In the end I moved on to business school and then I moved on to the hospitality business because I really do enjoy working with people and there's so many skills that we gain in the people business that are transferable amongst many different industries and many different careers. As I moved through Michigan State, I did my internships in Starwood Hotels and resorts in Chicago, which was a fantastic experience. And I think one of the key parts of anyone's career is you have to be open minded. You have to look for new opportunities, and you have to have the mindset that if I help someone else before I help myself, then I will succeed. That's that win relationship that I strongly believe in. And then, for Michigan State, I had the opportunity to go work for Starwood Hotels, but in the end, I didn't. I had a chance to pivot, Jim Burba, who was a Michigan state alum and big mentor to me gave me the opportunity to join him in California and work on the hotel investment conferences, as well as working consulting when he was with Horwath. So that was a fantastic experience. I spent the next seven and a half years working for BHN and for Jim Burba, but. One of the things that was always itching at me is I wanted to get my MBA, my master's in business internationally. I didn't want to do it in the U S amazing schools in the U S, but I wanted to go internationally and partly because I wanted to be the minority versus the majority. And so I went to get my MBA in Japan for two years. One of the companies that I had networked with a long time and I thought I was very passionate about was Six Senses Resorts and Spas in Soneva. And so I had the opportunity to go work in the Maldives and Thailand. After the NBA on the corporate team with Sonu Shibdasani, who also was another mentor for me and had another core purpose that I believed in. And then after a couple of years, I went back to take on the opportunity with BHN to lead the operations with Jim and the entire team. Fantastic experience and and through that I've been with BHN since. We continue to grow the company, continue to grow our careers. I have several passions, whether it be working with student ambassadors or any other people. in the industry, but just a high level of how my career has progressed so far.

Rachel Humphrey: 3:45

I love that. And Jim bourbon, incredible industry leader as well. You touched on some things that I think are really great lessons to start with. And one that you and I have talked a lot about is the importance for you and in your career. career and in your personal growth of living internationally, working internationally, adapting to new cultures. Talk about some of the things that have really shaped your leadership from those experiences.

Jonathon S. Zink: 4:11

Yeah, no, thank you. Rachel. And it all started, when I was in Michigan and that purpose that I referred to I, my dad was an executive with Penske. My mom was a nursing professor and I learned a lot from them. But one of the mottos that has stuck with me for a long time is effort equals results. That's Penske's motto. And that stuck for me through my entire career. But then I moved to Michigan state, as I mentioned, but When I turn to the global scene, one of the things I strongly believe in is that you should be a global citizen, you should go into the different cultures in these different countries and be kind, try to understand, their culture, try to think of it in ways that if I help them first, then it'll help me as well. And it'll be more of a win relationship with rather than the other way around. And, going internationally is Grant me these amazing experiences that I wouldn't have got by reading books or watching movies. You just have to experience it. And when I was doing, with Soneva in the Maldives, which if you're not familiar, it's a amazing destination off the Southern tip of India, one of the highest ADRs and all those kinds of amazing destinations to visit. Sonu Shivdasani instilled in me that core purpose of SLOWLIFE, which stands for Sustainable, Local, Organic, Wholesome, Learning, Inspiring, Fun Experiences. And I think that's how I approach life. Global Citizen, SLOWLIFE, all these different pieces. And then as I go into the different countries, I think of it as how can we collaborate? How can we work together? The best team is putting together a variety of different perspectives, whether it be on company type, ethnicity, religion, gender, women leaders. It's all those kinds of pieces are important to make strong teams. And I believe that is the way to succeed globally. Not only if you're working in a company in the U S or you're working in a company globally, but it's an opportunity you should go after. You got to seize the opportunity.

Rachel Humphrey: 5:57

I love the concept is, the diversity of thought of culture of experience of all of these things really bringing together to make the strongest teams. And 1 way that we make sure that we continue to have the strongest teams is continuing to grow. And I want to talk about this with you from 2 standpoints. 1 as a 1 of your roles is as a conference partner. planner and organizer. And that means really being on top in the industry of what are the latest trends? Who are the latest thought leaders? What is everybody talking about today? So I'm curious first, where you turn for your continuous growth from an industry standpoint. The second part of that is as we transition roles, sometimes we discover that there might be a skill that we're really going to need to be successful in our new role. That's But maybe we haven't mastered it in what we've done to date. Have you had that experience? And if so, where did you turn to develop that skill or grow that aspect of your personality and your professional experience?

Jonathon S. Zink: 6:56

Absolutely. I love building that global network. People like yourself, Rachel have been all great guidance for me throughout my entire career. And it's always much appreciated. And. I've had the opportunity to meet a lot of different CEOs and C suite executives, and constantly I reach out to them to have a conversation, to learn from their expertise and their insights and their guidance. I think that's all extremely important, and we're always trying to help one another. So not only that networking base of the mentor side, but, going back to how important core purpose is to me, BHN and Jim Burbos, who founded the company, his core purpose was connecting people, connecting places. And I believe that if you can connect people, you can connect places and in the end, it's shared success. And so that's how I've approached that not only from a global standpoint a networking standpoint and I guess that's my main focus. And the second part of your question, Rachel was, sorry.

Rachel Humphrey: 7:49

No, you're good. Okay. The second part of the question is really trying to develop new skills as you take on new roles, new opportunities, filling in some of those areas that you have room for growth.

Jonathon S. Zink: 8:01

Thank you. Yes. The so the new skills, through my career, I started out very much on the detail oriented side. I'm still very detail oriented. I am still very on, going back to that computer science mindset that I started out being right. But what I learned at BHN as I grew my career. One of the things I have to become very strong at is strategy and business development. Having those conversations working in the people business. I took a strong focus in, I think leaders need to be communicate. They need to do it clearly, whether it be writing or orally in conversation. So I think that's really important. And that communication factor goes a long way. And then also, So from a strategy, business development, communication skills, one of the things I focused on building was public speaking. We do a lot of public speaking on the stage, whether the conferences in the U S or in Hong Kong or Singapore and Australia. And I love that. I love the energy that comes out of being on stage, being with people. And I think of that as we go into different opportunities for growing the business. I become very good at the financial side, which is Going back to my starting days in my career and learning the different pieces. And now I've taken a lot more focus on building the bigger picture and helping the company grow, but also developing our team members that joined from out of school or have been in their career a long time or working with the student ambassadors at the different conferences. All those are building a future that's going to be beneficial for all of us.

Rachel Humphrey: 9:27

I really love the concept of using your network as your major growth opportunity or information resource. Cause it's one of the important ways that relationships matter, having people you can reach out to, and you've done such a great job of. Building that network and being very authentic and genuine and building those relationships. So I appreciate your sharing that, you talked about the conferences, you do a lot of conferences overseas. You travel a lot in the U S whether it's to meet with clients, customers, or go to other conferences, for some people, business travel, especially in the hospitality industry can be a significant portion of the job. Do you have any secrets that you use in either managing Your wellness managing. I heard the other day, some great packing strategies, anything that you think about when you think about business travel, that those who travel a lot might be able to benefit from.

Jonathon S. Zink: 10:20

Yeah, I know. I think there's so many skills and things we've learned in the hospitality industry that are transferable, whether you're traveling or your personal life, etcetera. But for me, when I travel and even when I'm at home, I love to run. I love to get exercise in the morning. It's good for my mind. It's good for my body. And actually, I learned it from one of the stories I heard about Arnie Sorenson before he passed away is he would go On to these different countries. And he would invite all his team members from the hotels or whatever to run with him. I just love that. It's the best way to experience the city is to run it. When I go to Sydney, I'll run Sydney, or if we've been doing our summer updates, Phoenix, Dallas, DC, et cetera. I like to run the city. Is it hot? Sure. But it's such a great experience. I think so great for the wellness side. And then I just go back to when I travel it's important to be kind. Be kind to people you never know what they're going through in a certain day but also be organized, and very organized as I pack and get ready to go. But, and I try to keep an open mind, travel is not going to always go as planned and conferences will not always go as planned, but we have to. Assume what's going to happen next and prepare our team to be ready. And that's how I approach not only career side, business side, personal side.

Rachel Humphrey: 11:34

I like the running in a city both to keep for the wellness for you, but also in immersing yourself in that city. And one of the great lessons of many that Arnie left behind you talked about running for you being a part of wellness for you at home as well. You are. In addition to your important industry role, you're also a husband and a dad being on the road a lot. I'm sure you have hobbies as well. Talk about work life harmony for you. Maybe how that's changed over time. And do you think that you have some strategies for making sure you feel satisfaction on both your career side and your personal life?

Jonathon S. Zink: 12:13

Yeah, no it's definitely an interesting balance. And I guess if I have one fault it's loving my career as much as I love my family and that might sound cliche, I, one of the things I really enjoy is, spending time with my wife, who's very supportive of my career and, global aspirations, but also my three young, hardworking children. And one of the things I really enjoy is, watching them play soccer or watching them play their sports on the weekends or go to the tournaments because. You see their energy and you see their will to succeed and everything that I can help hopefully instill with them for their future careers. But I really enjoy that. That's important to me. And also as a family, we enjoy to travel, if there's road trips around the U. S. or, going to Japan or going to different countries around the world, we really enjoy, traveling. Experiencing new destinations. We're not great at going back to many decisions, destinations, multiple times, but more exploring many different destinations and going back to those, that slow life thing I mentioned earlier, learning, inspiring, fun experiences. And that's how we approach it. And that's how as a family we believe we can. Can I adopt, adapt to the world around us?

Rachel Humphrey: 13:22

It's interesting cause you mentioned the slow life as a a slogan that you learned as part of a career, but to implement that into your family as well, and to make it a much bigger impact on your personal life is such a great lesson in seeing how we can weave in. Leadership from our careers into our personal life and vice versa. So I like that a lot. One of the things that I find fascinating is that we all experience self doubt regardless of where we get in our careers. And you hear that from, just about every leader now. Do you experience that type of thing? And what advice would you give to others who are Rising careerists who may be questioning, is this for me? Do I have a path to leadership? Different strategies maybe that you use if you have experienced any of that self doubt or moments of lack of confidence.

Jonathon S. Zink: 14:15

Yeah, I think, I've had the opportunity to work with many students coming out of college because the ambassador program I mentioned earlier, or even people in their career for 10, 15, 20 years. And I, I think it's really important to find out earlier in your career, what you don't like so trying to take on new opportunities that, if it's in the hotel industry and, get some experience waiting tables in a restaurant or working hotel operations at the front desk, or, learning about the development investment side, but find things. That's your chance. Experience as much as you can and find out what you don't like so that you, in the end, can find out what you do and I think some of the opportunities that people are approaching, that might exist 10 years from now, they might not exist today. You think of technology and where things are, sustainability, or, You're trying to find a way to make that win with the company is find something as a value that you can offer to that company. If that company is looking to be strong in sustainability, learn sustainability if that's really important to you. But I think it's about finding the passion and finding that you really want to work for a certain company.

Rachel Humphrey: 15:15

That's great advice too, because if you are passionate about something, if it's something that you enjoy doing, you're going to have a lot more confidence going into it and then developing that skill set will continue to back that up and help you continue to grow. I want to switch gears to a couple of other things. One of the. aspects that you mentioned, whether it be in switching careers or living internationally or stopping work for a short amount of time to go back to school is this concept of taking risks. Would you classify yourself as a risk taker? Do you implement certain strategies as you're trying to decide what is a risk worthwhile taking for you?

Jonathon S. Zink: 15:54

Yeah, no, I'm very much welcome to take risks, but I also want to look at it. I think. Some people will consider them risks and other people's wouldn't, for I'll give you an example. So when I decided to leave BHN and go to get my MBA in Japan, a lot of people, on both sides thought I was taking a big risk and I just didn't look at it that way. I looked at it as something that this is something where I can elevate my career, learn more experiences and I believe I should go for it. So I'm going for it. And, a lot of people in the industry also had become great mentors and were very supportive of that, but I just didn't look at that way. But on the flip side, I believe it's important to take risks as leaders to grow companies and make moves, but also. Do your due diligence, know what's the analysis it is or try to look at the different factors and how it will affect things in the long run. But in the end, I think leaders need to make qualified, quality decisions and they need to be trusted to do that. And that's really important. And, It can't be a decision that takes a long time to come to it's more about bringing all the information and the ideas from a team and taking that to the next level to lead the team to the next step.

Rachel Humphrey: 17:01

I think that's important that I'm taking risks as a company is how we continue to grow and don't remain stagnant. But also interesting that for you, risk taking is a mindset. You can think about it as taking a risk or you can think about it as an opportunity. Take a risk. And then what are you going to do with that opportunity? Another analysis that we use that's very similar is overcoming obstacles. So whether it is if we have something that doesn't work out like we hoped or thought that it might, how do we then perceive that? Is it an opportunity to learn and grow? Or is it a big setback? Do you have examples of things that you have experienced where maybe it didn't turn out like you hoped or thought that it might? And what are some of the lessons that you learned from those?

Jonathon S. Zink: 17:46

Yeah, I think there's a lot of you might face challenges, you're trying to grow the revenues or grow the company. But there might be outside factors challenging you a bit, but I think it's always approaching it with the glass half full mindset, and surrounding yourself with a team that's very positive. If they come to work with a positive mindset and they're always trying to find solutions, to, to. You're going to face challenges no matter what we face on a daily basis, but how we approach those challenges is what's going to make us stronger. And I do believe the learning inspiring fun experiences. They could be good experiences that could be bad experiences. I learned early in my career that, maybe not the best at waiting tables. I love to be personable and do all that kind of stuff, but I'm a personable person. Maybe I'm just too clumsy to wait tables, but it's like the career, you find out what you enjoy and you don't enjoy and you try to put things together to, to make that win and that shared success in the long run. And that's important to me. That's what's worked for me. And from a challenges standpoint, I'll give you an example. It's not necessarily. One that I had, but one that I really utilize in my daily life on business side and personal side. When I was in the Maldives again, southern tip of India islands destination long time ago, probably 30 years ago they're surrounded by ocean. So there's 1200 islands. There's 400 of those are actually inhabited. Amazing destination. But what they were doing was they didn't have any place to put the trash. So they would take the trash out to the middle of the ocean and they would dump the trash in the ocean. Okay, Soneva, Sano, Ship Dasani, et cetera, very responsible tourism focus. What he said is, yes, we can get the government involved from a legal standpoint, but what is a way we can create that heart and that tenacity within the Maldivian population and see that it's not great to dump trash in the oceans. What Soneva did is they create a swimming school for the children. They create a swimming school for the children. All of a sudden the parents and everyone that had grown up that way saw my children are swimming in the ocean. We need to protect the ocean. So not only did they win on two fronts, it was three fronts and more. And I think of that as a way I network, a way I do business and the way I grow, but also on our team are as well as. Cool boy.

Rachel Humphrey: 19:54

We definitely share you and I the solution oriented mindset and also the positivity. I think that if you surround yourself with a team that thinks for solutions, where do I want to go? And how do I get there? Or what is the challenge? And how do I overcome it? It's going to lead to great successes. I want to turn now to leadership style, and I'm going to ask you a couple of different questions relating to leadership style. One of the questions would be thinking over the last 12 months, maybe the last year, Has there been a leadership lesson for you in the last year and how is it going to impact your leadership style moving forward?

Jonathon S. Zink: 20:33

Yeah. Yeah, I think initially my leadership style was very much results oriented. I wanted to drive the results, from a number of sign, a dollar sign, et cetera, and grow the company, but. I think it's really important to, to build the skill of empathy. I think that's important, as you think about, it always was there, from a shared success and a win mindset and trying to take care of the other person before you take care of yourself. But I think, especially when, building a team, it's really important to have empathy, but also be able to drive those results. And so I think a couple of those factors are really important to me also to have a very strategic mindset but also that global mindset that I think has been clear on where I'm focused. And that's how I think is the best road going forward.

Rachel Humphrey: 21:19

I think that Learning and improving and growing empathy as a leadership style is definitely one of the most common themes we are hearing among leaders now. And whether that is some brought on by the resilience from the pandemic or from other aspects, I definitely think there's a huge emphasis now on that as a leadership skill. How about in thinking over your leadership, not over the last year, but let's say over the Course of a couple of decades, what do you think has gotten better and is there something that maybe has become more difficult for you from a leadership standpoint?

Jonathon S. Zink: 21:57

Yeah, great question. I, I would say that from a over the years and trying to be more adaptable, as I went through. My, my leadership or my mindset has changed over the years, but I think it's for the better, and sometimes I find myself going back to that detail oriented standpoint and trying to make sure the quality is delivered but I the one big thing, you asked earlier about travel you asked about, Business and everything. It's always having an open mind, you know Whether something is approached a certain way doesn't mean it's the right way the wrong way, and we can always get to the same result. We might get to a different result, but we have to be open minded. About the conversation and always having, I know we're in a remote world, but always having that open door policy, always have those conversations that can better the team or better the industry. Because I believe we have a bigger impact than just our own company, just our own core purpose, but our. The bigger impact is as an industry, connecting people, connecting places, building, building an organization and also an industry that you want your children to work in. And we want to keep growing that industry. So there's a lot of factors, but that's some of the ways I would approach it.

Rachel Humphrey: 23:06

I love that. You have mentioned a couple of guiding principles for you. You mentioned the Penske motto. You've mentioned the Burba motto. You've mentioned the Maldives motto. I'm wondering, is there a Jonathan Zink mantra that you. Really use as a guiding star for you as a North star, where you say, you know what, this is who I am, how I make decisions, how I want to be seen or live my life. That is an important, maybe grounding point for you.

Jonathon S. Zink: 23:40

Yeah, I wish there was, I I, one of the things I think I've learned over the years is try to borrow all the things I like and that's in trying to create something that I really aspire to. And that's why I mentioned Global Citizen. I really like to travel and I know my kids and wife do as well, travel and gain those experiences because You always love the question, what is the fir favorite place you traveled to? Or what is the favorite thing you've done? And that's always a tough question for me because there's always something that I grab, I like and I don't like, and then I try and put'em all together and bring them home and try and so I'm like going around your question a little bit, but I don't have a particular mantra, but I do believe all of those ones, whether it be, effort equals results or Spartan's will, or connecting people, connecting places. The school in Japan it was where the world collaborates, and I really believe that. And I know it's, I know companies drop mottos and purposes into place and don't always believe them. But you have to believe in the leaders that they do believe them, and they build a team with that mindset, because if you build a team with that mindset, then all of a sudden, you're not alone, you're together, and you're trying to achieve a purpose and try to keep that team diversified. I really do believe that's the way going forward. And, I hope, Rachel, when we have this conversation again, that I have a mantra for you of myself, but right now I'm just compiling.

Rachel Humphrey: 25:04

No, I like it. I think it's incredible. The one The experiences that you have had have been so impactful for you that you have incorporated. That's what I was saying. You've incorporated these really meaningful things from companies, from individuals into who you are as a person, who you are as a leader. And I think that's really great to see how much you're able to really authentically find import in those things. Because like you said, you want companies that actually believe in. what they're selling. And I don't mean selling as a product, but selling as a philosophy. As I knew we are going to run short on time. I do have a couple of questions I want to wrap up with. Everybody who listens regularly knows that this is my favorite question to ask and to be asked. And part of the reason is I think we are all works in progress. And part of that is reflecting. So as we look back over our lives, hopefully we've learned things and we continue to grow and develop. When you look back at 21 year old Jonathan, what would you tell yourself, either about something you wish you knew then, or maybe about how things work out for you? Yeah, I,

Jonathon S. Zink: 26:11

I would say, I had a lot of chance to do a lot of different experiences during school, something at 21 years old, to be leading organizations or things like that, but to focus more, school's important, and it's important to have that degree and everything, but you think about the experiences that will make an impact, when I, did study abroad in Norway, that's the story I tell every time about school, I gained so much from there, and it really hit home for me, so I would encourage students coming out of school, To get as many experiences as possible, and that means good and bad, because I think every company, as I mentioned earlier, every company and organization you work with, there's going to be bad experiences. I've had many bad experiences. I just choose to focus on the good experiences. I learned from the bad experiences. I, and I make sure I find the good out of it and how I can improve myself as a leader and a team member going forward. So that's the That's how I would approach it. Get as many experiences as possible. I do encourage global travel. I think that's gonna, make an impact, good and bad but that's okay but just approach it with a kindness and a way to help others before you help yourself.

Rachel Humphrey: 27:19

There it comes back to that theme of the positivity mindset again. As we are wrapping up today, and we are thinking about the motto of DEI advisors, which is to empower personal success. I'm wondering if you have one piece of final advice that you'd like to share with our audience.

Jonathon S. Zink: 27:39

Yeah, I would say when you go into the conversations or you meet with people and be very open minded with that, but be memorable. When you go into these conversations with a networking standpoint, a business standpoint, People like doing business with people they like. They don't like doing business with people they don't like. So be memorable in those conversations. Connect with them. Build relationships. Have integrity. I think integrity is extremely important. So it takes a long time to generate integrity. It takes two seconds to lose it. And as you develop your career and you work through your career, no matter what stage you are in your career, Integrity is everything and people want to work with you if you have high integrity and they enjoy working with you. So I, I think it's more on the personal. And the mindset of yourself to be positive and also make those relationships as you go along, because our industry is so big, but it is so small and that in our skills that we've gained are transferable across any industry. Look at it that way and and hold on to the steering wheel because it's going to be a long and exciting ride.

Rachel Humphrey: 28:40

It is an exciting ride. And I could not agree with you more about the integrity. Aspect and character. So I appreciate your sharing that, I always share with our audience. Why I've asked someone to be a guest on the show, as people know by now, it is somebody who has impacted my career, my personal life, and I hope will others, but through your guidance and advice, but you have been an incredible collaborative. partner for me, a friend for me. I, we have reached out to one another to brainstorm, as you mentioned, many times coming up with many ideas that have benefited both of us and our businesses, and I really appreciate it. I think we are always stronger together, and I just you're an incredible, incredibly collaborative. Giving person. So I appreciate that very much. On behalf of myself and the industry, Jonathan, thank you so much for your leadership for giving us a place to gather multiple times a year, which is such a critical factor for the hospitality industry for your leadership and your friendship to me, but appreciate your joining the show very much today.

Jonathon S. Zink: 29:42

Yeah, thank you, Rachel. I couldn't say enough. Your friendship means the world to me and I look forward to working with you and the other D advisors team. And other people in industry all the time. So thank you again for the opportunity. I really do appreciate it.

Rachel Humphrey: 29:56

I appreciate that. And for our audience, thank you so much for tuning in today. We're sure you've enjoyed my conversation with Jonathan, but make sure to head on over to DEIadvisors. org where you can hear from nearly 200 other industry leaders who have likewise shared their journey and their insights as well. So thank you again, and we hope you'll tune in again.