Dawn shares her career journey from front desk associate to Chief Commercial Officer at Crescent Hotels and Resorts. She reveals strategic career decisions, driven by a growth mindset, hard work and dedication to excellence.
Dawn shares her career journey from front desk associate to Chief Commercial Officer at Crescent Hotels and Resorts. She reveals strategic career decisions, driven by a growth mindset, hard work and dedication to excellence.
Greetings. I am Dorothy Dowling, a principal of DEI Advisors. We are a non profit organization dedicated to personal empowerment. I am delighted to welcome Dawn Gallagher, chief commercial officer of Crescent Hotels and Resorts. Dawn, it is truly an honor to have you with us today.
Dawn Gallagher:Thank you, Dorothy. It's an honor that you've invited me to your webcast. I, I think that what you're doing actually is also fantastic for just a number of reasons as well.
Dorothy Dowling:Thank you. Let's get to it. John, the first question that we always like to ask each of our DEI advisors is that you will share your career journey with us. You have had many roles in big hotel companies. You started in hotel operations and you've really straddled so much of the industry through your career. So I'm hoping you can share your development path and how this has made you into the successful executive you are today.
Dawn Gallagher:Thank you. So I actually started at the front desk. First, I would go back to say that my, my grandparents had a motel when I was young. I was younger and I would spend summers following around a housekeeper. Her name was Cruz. I certainly wouldn't be able to do that today, but it, I didn't know how impactful that would be until then when I was going to college and not understanding what my major was going to be. That I would then be dragged back to sales, took a course in hospitality marketing, and really found this love for that. In that you actually have to make sure that you've got a number of hours in the business before you can graduate. And so I started Phoenix park hotel as a front desk clerk coincidentally where I did meet my husband, which is, I'm still married. So that's a good thing. 33 years later. But in starting at the front desk, it really, in a small hotel, it gives you An enormous amount of understanding how all departments work together versus being in a larger hotel. So I was able to do switchboard reservations. The night auditor didn't show up half the time and I'd work until 3 o'clock in the morning. But it really gave me a kind of a good basis of where to go from go to from there, I went to another company Hilton International. I was at the Vista with a friend you and I know really well Vista International as a front desk clerk as well. And from there promoted to my first hotel that I opened, which was the Vista Waltham. And during that time, it was called a Director of Reservations. That was my title. Hanging at the Visto, we flipped it to a Westin. So it was also my first brand change, which was an enormous responsibility and very rare to be done in the early nineties, I should say. Much different than it is today. Had a great time there. First of all, opening a hotel is a once in a lifetime experience. I still have the friends that I opened that hotel with today.
Dorothy Dowling:Wow.
Dawn Gallagher:There's still great friends. One actually was in our wedding as well. But from there I went to Boston park Plaza hotel as the director of reservation sales, which really is today a dorm large 960 room hotel. Overseeing about 12 reservation agents. slash wholesale slash BT slash everything. That was a great really entrance into large big box hotels and understanding how the different dynamics worked there. I really loved it, really loved everything about that hotel. From there, I actually moved back to Washington, DC. And was that the Omni Shore Hotel? The first year I was at the Omni Shore Hotel, I was the Director of Reservation Sales. The second year I was promoted to a Director of Sales role. Which I loved. It was such a great role. Obviously, when you're in reservations and revenue, you understand everything from one angle and then moving on to the sales realm, really understanding it from the lead generation source to the end result of booking. The business was a complete difference as well as it was a complete difference in the way that you lead people. And leading sale, a sales force is very different than leading an operational team. There's a difference in your approach. Which I learned the hard way the first year that the approach on operations does not work in sales then learned and moved through that process the following year. But that was a great experience from there. I actually took my first regional role. I was tapped to be an area director of sales or excuse me, an area director of revenue management for Starwood. And that's just when. Starwood had just purchased Weston and had purchased Sheraton and we're creating smaller regional team members to go out and make sure that we were looking at revenue management, understanding revenue management. I think that they liked me in that role because I came from a director of sales role because I was explaining to directors of sales and marketing the value of what the director of revenue management brings to the table. So it was a great role for me to get into and it was, in my opinion, this was in 19. 98 is one of the first regional roles out there within the industry. Or so me and about five other people started this role with Starwood, but there weren't many out there doing this. From there I was there for a year and then I was tapped to be, I was promoted to regional director of sales and marketing. Which in the Starwood early days, your region changed by the year. One region was mid Atlantic. The next region was Sheraton from DC to Florida. The next region was all hotels, DC to New Jersey. In those early days, which were a lot of fun. There were changes. There were rapid changes every year that we went through, but it gave you a great under gave me a great understanding of different hotels. The East Coast, different brands suburb airport downtown city center. I got the opportunity to learn all of them and learn the different demand generators from there. I went to my first vice president role at interstate hotels and resorts, and I was happy to take that role on. Because in taking that role on Dorothy. I knew the managed side of the business from a brand perspective, but I didn't know the owner side of the business. And I really wanted to make sure that I had a better understanding of the owner relation and who better to go to than interstate at that time. So with interstate, I oversaw many different regions. Through my years, five years in with interstate, I was promoted to senior vice president of sales and marketing at that point. I oversaw global sales. I oversaw all New York City hotels, independence and brands. And I also oversaw resorts. So that was great. And that was a lot of fun. From there, I went to my first role with Crescent, which was the executive vice president of sales and marketing. It's a lot of fun, fantastic organization. A year into that role, I was promoted to Chief sales marketing officer. And then today I'm chief commercial officer. So all in a nutshell, 1986 to 2024.
Dorothy Dowling:Dawn, thank you for sharing that career journey. Cause I do see the progression and the dots that. You have been able to connect across all of the commercial components of the business, which I know empower your career in an amazing way, because you're able to see things from multiple lenses. So I do think that career forward decisioning in terms of being intentional about some of the opportunities that were presented to you. And it also seems like you're a bit of a trailblazer. You were taking on lots of new roles that had. We're just being defined. So congratulations on that amazing career journey. And I'm sure that is why you are such a successful executive today, because every role that you have done, you have delivered great value, which has propelled your career forward. So congratulations.
Dawn Gallagher:Thank you. Thank you. It's been fun.
Dorothy Dowling:I'm wondering, we often talk or advise or talk, ask our advisors if they have some kind of personal mantra that has propelled their career forward. Do you have any that you would share with the audience?
Dawn Gallagher:I would never take a risk that I would tell somebody else not to take the risk of doing right. So I really feel like what to other people, you have to make sure that you're doing the same exact thing. So to me If I'm going out there saying, take a risk, make it move on, and I don't and I'm sitting in the safest position I can, then I'm not really being true to myself or true to the people that I have on my journey.
Dorothy Dowling:I think that's a real testament. And I think that's what many employees and teammates are looking for today is that. Authenticity in terms of the leadership and really demonstrating the lived experience that, that you actually engage in that kind of role modeling. I now understand a lot of the fellowship you have in the industry as well. I'm wondering if your career. Through your career, I know that we, you referenced Cindy, of course, who is someone that we both share a deep respect and affection for, but I'm wondering if there are career champions that have really helped shape your career and offered you mentorship and allyship as your career has evolved.
Dawn Gallagher:Yes, there have been many. I think that today we call them mentors. We didn't call them mentors as we grew through the business, but there were people that you would glob onto that you knew were exactly what you wanted to do next. Oh my God, I want to be just like that person when I have that role. And so for me the person that has made the biggest difference on my life and who I will continue to just really tell her amazing leadership is a person. Her name is Jean Spalding. And Jean Spalding was my regional director of sales and marketing when I was with Starwood. I wasn't her pick, by the way, as the area director of revenue management. And so me coming into the role, I had to show her why I was better than all the other candidates as well. But but she, when you think about somebody who can walk into a room and. Has immediate presence and immediate respect. And so what she says ends up mattering. You're like, I want to follow that person. I want to be, I want to be like her. Everything that she does, I want to understand and say, she remembered every number anybody would spat out, she'd speak back to them. And in a way that just really created a, an amazing environment. And she's also, again, somebody who knows every part of the business. Which I also think is important. You can't just speak, you've got to be the doer as well. You've got to know when you should be at, 30, 000 feet. You have to know when you have to be right on the ground, working side by side, shoulder by shoulder. And so she taught me that. And I'm forever grateful for that as well.
Dorothy Dowling:That is a beautiful story, Don. And I think it's impactful because for leaders that are listening to this, I think just understanding the impact that someone like That had on you translates in terms of the impact that you want to have in others because it is all that informal observation that and the dreams that people have that you're imparting to them that they want to follow in your footsteps. It's a serious weight being a leader and trying to be a good role model for others. So thank you for sharing that story. I know you, you have been very intentional about your career and you've taken risks in terms of a lot of the decisions you've made. I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about those risks that you took and what kind of outcomes and learning experiences really supported your growth.
Dawn Gallagher:So it's funny when I thought about that, Dorothy, because Every time you progress to a different level of an organization, you're taking a bigger risk. You're creating more visibility on you to create either hopefully more success or only frankly more success, but you, every role you take is a risk. I'm, I have never been one that has been a hundred percent qualified for the job that I started, but I will always give 120 percent to that. that overcompensates for where that where I may not know exactly what I'm supposed to be doing. And so I have always jumped in feet first just to make sure that if somebody gave me that opportunity, I'm going to take that opportunity. I'm going to write it hard. Sometimes I think that we as females think that we have to be 120 percent qualified for a job and to give 140 percent I think that we along with the universe can be 80 percent qualified with 120 percent intentionality on to be the best at what we're trying to do. And so throughout my career, I've always talked to my husband. Hey, here's this opportunity. Here's the environment. Here's what could happen. Here's the best thing that could happen, and here's the worst thing that could happen. And he'll always say, just go for it. You're great. Go for it. So I've always been very blessed to have a strong partner that said, go take it and keep moving on. Because first and foremost, if my relationships at home and my family life at home is not going well, I can't do anything else. So that strong foundation that my husband has given me has made me, be able to take risks that maybe other people can't take.
Dorothy Dowling:I appreciate you sharing how much of a champion your husband has been, because I think that is often overlooked in terms of having others. In our personal life that really help us take on some of those opportunities because there's always a trade off in our lives. But the other important lesson that I think you shared Don is really, that conversation that we often have about leaders. is the ability and the willingness conversation. And I think what you've portrayed so well is this willingness of giving it your all to really close any gaps in terms of the learning journey that you were on. And I do think sometimes we underestimate how important willingness is in terms of our own personal success and taking the bet on others. So thank you for sharing that. Cause I think that's an important leadership lesson for all of us. Don, you've always. It's been really extraordinary in terms of nurturing relations, professional relations. And I'm just wondering if you can share a little bit about how you have done that. I know you're very active with HSMAI and you're intentional about your volunteer commitments, but I'm hoping you can help us understand how some of that has also enabled your career.
Dawn Gallagher:Dorothy, just like you, the longer that you're in this industry, you realize how big and how small this industry is, right? Like me. My first front desk job where Cindy Estes would be my boss in 19, I'm going to say 86 or 87 to knowing her today is pretty ironic. Pretty amazing. But I think that if you have to in this business where I've been in regional capacity roles, overseeing multiple hotels, across the United States and Canada. You have to be true to who you are to make that relationship the right relationship. So I think the longer that you're in this role, the more people know who you are. They know who you are by what you've said. I've had people, Dorothy, that had said, I remember, you were my regional and we were at a meeting together and you said, X, Y and Z to me, and I've taken that my career and I'm thinking, Oh God, I really hope that was great because I have no idea what I said 15 years ago, right? But somebody took those words and really said, that's exactly what I'm going to do moving forward. And so it puts a lot of weight on me. on us to say, are we making sure that we say the best things to everybody? Are we making sure that we create the best relationships as we move forward? And can we make sure that in each of the journeys that not only, our team members on, but our team members on, what are those small moments where you're sitting and you're talking together just one on one that create them to advance their journey somewhere else. So I think that's, I don't want, I'm not a, I'm not a person that wants to brag, but I like the small moments that are intimate with individuals where you create a long lasting relationship that lasts forever. You and I had dinner once five years ago, right? So you know you begin to understand and connect with people that have similar values and look to moving forward. And then as you and I have those same values, how do we make sure that we give back To the younger generation. I will say that my, my daughters. Who I think are beautiful and it's successful and everything else always say to me, mom, I'm still looking for my Jean Spalding, right? If I had my Jean Spalding, I know I could, I know I could be more successful. So it's just amazing, even in family life, how you translate that work and home life success into. What they believe that they need as they go on their journeys as well.
Dorothy Dowling:I think you said a lot of really important things there, Don. One is always being aware of the impact we have on others and making sure we're a really good guardian of how we communicate and support each other. Because as much as you've had these remarkable positive impacts, leaders can also have the opposite effect. So I think Being very thoughtful about those kinds of decisions that you have on other people's lives is important. I also think that part of nurturing relations, because I think as you speak now of Cindy Estes Green, who we both have a shared admiration for, you've kept that relationship. For a very long time, and that takes a certain amount of effort and investment, and I do think that is something that, again, we can all learn together is that investing in relationships does take time and but it always pays back dividends that. Sometimes we don't even know at the time. And I think the last message that you sent was just the way you have shared that with others in terms of how someone made such an impactful difference in your life, that others are looking for that kind of person. That pedestal of how they can continue to power their careers. I thank you for that because I think those important things for us all to keep in mind, not only as we seek our leadership opportunities, but also how we share our leadership opportunities with others. So I'm wondering, we can talk a little bit about adversity because we've all faced it. Certainly we've had big macro adverse situations. Most recently with COVID, we had the financial challenge that we all had to navigate in 2007, 2008. But I'm just wondering if there's any adverse situations that have been important in shaping your career journey that you would share with our audience today.
Dawn Gallagher:There are many, Dorothy, right? Um, I was trying to think what could I say that would make the most sense from, and I'll start with this, which was, I was going to college, I had to and I had a different job as I was going to college and to make sure that I had the number of hours for credits to, to to graduate. The hotel business, as we all know, did not, does not pay a lot of money, and I had to make a choice, okay, I'm gonna have to hold on my career. I'm gonna have to hold on my college education for a minute because I've gotta have these 800 hours. which will cause me not to be able to stay in stay in college. And when I made that decision to, to work at the front desk at the Phoenix Park Hotel, I knew it would be tough for me to get back to college. So as I progressed, Dorothy adversity comes when you are one of two candidates. And you're one of two candidates. One candidate has a degree and you don't. And so for me, I've always felt like I had to work an extra 120 percent harder, lean in, do more, volunteer for everything possible to make sure that I was tipping the scales evenly. When somebody just looked at who I was on paper to see where I move forward. So I always knew that, for me, it's always been, I've got to get ahead because I don't have that college basis that fundamental, because if somebody is looking at me on paper, I'm, I might be discounted unless they know who I am. And they can experience from a reference. What I could possibly bring to the table.
Dorothy Dowling:I think that whole element of your commitment, your willingness, your hard worked on, I think those are important elements that we all have to bring to the table in terms of powering our career. And, I'm a big fan. I love Angela Duckworth's book on grit and, formulating that. skill of grittiness. And I think that's what you've spoken to is that it really is that determination that you bring to the table and your drive to be successful that has made you such the executive that you are today. And why everyone admires you so much is that you bring that drive, ambition, and, commitment to success of everyone that you're supporting in such a powerful way. But thank you for sharing that. Cause I do think that is a challenge that many of us face that we feel less than for some reason, and we always have to figure out how are we going to address that in propelling our career and representing ourselves effectively?
Dawn Gallagher:It gives you two paths, right? I could use the path to use the excuse on the why I couldn't or didn't and where I can say. I'm gonna learn harder. Nobody's going to outwork me and I'm going to perform to a level that puts me visible and makes me on a level playing field. So we all have, we all have that choice to make. The excuse on the why nots. Which hopefully makes you fight harder the next time, or how do you make sure you try to stand out? And that comes from the time where I didn't, I wasn't tapped for the job. And I said, that will never happen again. And so what do I need to do to make sure, I'm not, what do I need to make sure that's not going to happen again? And then you tilt over on this, and this, and then, If you're not then taken as the next person, you're with the wrong company.
Dorothy Dowling:Well said. I'm wondering if we can talk a little bit about change, because when you were talking about your career journey a few minutes ago, you were talking about all of the different options that you took on, the travel, the relocations associated with some of those roles. Can you talk about how you've Navigated all of those changes in your career and your personal life.
Dawn Gallagher:Yeah, I can. So first and foremost, like we talked about earlier if I didn't have a great marriage and a great husband and a great partner, I may not be where I am today. Because when you have a confident home life. Everything else is easier. If there's a, if there's friction in your home life, it makes it difficult. So I'm blessed to have a great husband foundation. Second from that funny story. I was engaged when I was promoted to open the Vista Law Firm. And Frank and I made this agreement and he was going to move up in the first year and life was going to be wonderful. And we were going to move on. And guess what? He didn't move up. He said, it's way too cold up there. He's from Ireland, by the way, it's way too cold in Boston. I'm not going to do that journey. Then a year later he did end up moving up there. That could have changed. That could have changed my trajectory of where I went. We knew we wanted to get back to Washington D. C. because we both had family here when we were married and had children and didn't want to be away from our families. So that transition was easy back. I will say from there, Dorothy, I've made it. Um, I've not left the Washington DC area. And I said to those who have asked if I'm able and blessed to have this crazy journey of a life, I'm not moving my family. Every single time the opportunity comes up and today's generation won't do it either. It's hard to find those that will relocate. So if I'm going to have this wonderful life that I love, this wonderful job that I love, I have to understand to keep my family stable. We have to be in one environment. He owns his own business. I can't move him and have him have to create his own business. from a relocation perspective. So that is one of those things that we agreed on. You can have your crazy travel life, Dawn, but we have to have, our home has to be our home. And so I haven't moved since 1994, although I've flown like you, millions of miles since then. But state, home base has stayed in Washington, DC, the greater area.
Dorothy Dowling:That leads us into the next area that I wanted to explore with you, Don, but I think that is a brilliant way that you framed up that you had to have some stability in terms of a part of your life so that you could take on a very demanding role in the other part of your life. But I know that you have two daughters. I know you have a beautiful granddaughter who I saw on screen at one point. I'm just wondering how you have. Balanced all of those demands of being a parent and a grandparent a very significant executive role and also maintained your own health and well being. How did you find that balance?
Dawn Gallagher:I think I don't know, Dorothy, I hate the word balance because I think that the word balance makes you feel like you have to be even all the time everywhere. And I. And it's not possible. So as a working mom and wife, balance can't be 50 percent this way and 50 percent this way. But I will say that I have lived a life of over commitment as you have as well. And in that over committed world, there are times where I've over committed in my work life. And, you have to figure those pieces out. When can I work? When the girls go to bed. When I can wake up early before the girls wake up. Between soccer games on the weekend. You, you think of those instances that you have to be highly productive. And then there are other times where I'm over tilted and over committed on weekends when I'm trying to figure out how to do 18 things. I, one, one day I was on a conference call on a budget review conference call, and I'm watching the clock tick tick. I'm thinking, Oh, my God, I've got to pick the girls up from daycare. I've got to take them to the orthodontist appointments. And then I've got to go to a soccer game. Yet this call is not ending, right? And when that calls not ending in my mind, you think how am I going to race to get all this done? So what happens to me in a single day is I get 3 speeding tickets, 1 speeding, writing out, getting, you getting the kids to go to, to actually I forgot where's my seatbelt as well. The other speeding ticket leaving the orthodontist late because we arrived late to get to soccer practice. That's just, there was a point where I just had way too many speeding tickets from this life of overcommitment. It is what it is. But you do have to tilt where you can and find also in your life. Those that become your greater family that pick up where you can't pick up and then you help them when they need help as well. So you've got to have other folks in your life that can help you as well, it can't be done just by two people.
Dorothy Dowling:I really appreciate you being so genuine and sharing that story, Dawn, because I think many of us have been in that lived experience where it's a colliding of the personal and the professional life and how you're going to do right by everyone. But I do think that element of giving yourself permission and being able to look at it objectively the way you do in terms of Okay. So I've got some speeding tickets, but I do think that also makes you an amazing leader to others. And just the genuine element of sharing that with other women leaders, because many of them, especially when their children are younger and not driving that it is, how did they balance? And. Do right by everyone. And I agree with you. The word is not balance. It is about how you are able to support all the people that are important in your life. But thank you for sharing that. And I know that you give that back to other women leaders in terms of understanding how they're navigating those journeys and giving people a little more flexibility and permission to be able to manage through all of the demands of Being a parent and being a very good teammate in your organization and in the industry at large. That leads me on to my next question, because one of the things that I have admired about you, Don, and I have seen you in many situations with some of the opportunities that we've had through HSMA and others, but I consider you a courageous leader. In your truth teller, you say what you think in a very diplomatic way, but you do have a way of sharing accountabilities, asking for shared accountabilities with your team and your business partners. So I'm just wondering how you have really honed that skill in terms of the partners that you work with in terms of Crescent and also the teammates that you support in terms of how do you build those bridges and. Become that diplomatic truth teller on what they have to deliver.
Dawn Gallagher:So Dorothy, it's funny because through, as I grew up in, in the hotel business and had different bosses and in different leaders. When I would get my performance evaluation they would always say something like, wow, you're way too honest with your communication style or direct and you need to understand, you need to soften the approach a bit. And I've tried to do that, but I'm not really good at it. And so I think that my communication style is to first be humble and be honest. And I think that a lot of people prefer honesty versus preferring having to read through the lines of wondering what did they really say? And what did they really mean? And so I've tried to even just keep that approach today. You're right. We do have to work with our partners. in the hotel, either above property or below property, you're only as good as your weakest link. And it's all of our jobs to make sure that we're showing up that weakest link and strengthening that. There are, there are times where listen in life, it's easier to say no than to say yes. It's just easier. But if you say no to often, then you're going to prevent possible revenue growth in a hotel. So one of the things that I like to say to the general managers in our organization. When we do executive orientation about every couple of months is, Hey, you have two roles as a general manager, most important role on the property, but you can either be the director of revenue prevention and therefore we will have a lot of conversation about that, or you can make sure that you're creating this leadership environment. Where there are no excuses. And in this no excuse environment, our sales and catering and commercial teams. Have no excuse but to drive for the highest amount of revenue and lean in and focus forward. And so if you take that, if you take those examples of how you lead forward, you're going to know how I want you to lead your organization at the hotel level.
Dorothy Dowling:I thank you for sharing that story, Don. I have heard it once before and it has stayed with me ever since you shared that because I do think you offer that story with diplomacy, but I love the way you have really talked about a team culture and this ability to a shared sense of purpose and really everyone owning their piece of that outcome. So I commend you for that because. As I said, I took serious note of when I heard you say that. And I said, I've never heard anyone articulate it in the way that you just did. And I think it's a lesson for all of us in terms of owning our accountabilities and responsibilities to drive to the right outcomes and bringing our teams with us. So thank you for bringing that message forward in such a powerful way.
Dawn Gallagher:You're welcome.
Dorothy Dowling:Dom, we're coming up to the end of our interview, and one of the things we always ask our DEI advisors, if there's any final advice, and quite frankly, if it was you sitting on the shoulder of your younger self, maybe it's the kind of advice you might offer to yourself, but it is about what kind of valuable insights that you might bring to our audience that could benefit them in the earlier part of their careers.
Dawn Gallagher:So it's a great question, Dorothy. And to me, we have a strategic action company wide in our commercial division at Crescent that talks just through that. And the strategic principle is how are we investing in ourselves? We've all gone through an enormous amount of change in the past few years. We have learned different muscle memory on things that we don't want to continue with that muscle memory. And we've got to regain back now that the business is normalizing how to move forward in a different way with all the business intelligence tools we have at our fingertips. And so to me, that invest in yourself principle is what are you doing to level up your game? We always want to strengthen our, continue to strengthen ourselves on where we excel, but we also have to shore up those places that we're not yet comfortable in. So what are we doing today to ensure that we're constantly focusing on learning something new? And to me, that does a couple of different things. First, it's going to give you knowledge on a subject that you're probably uncomfortable with. But whenever you're learning new tasks or you're putting yourself in a master class, or you're listening to a podcaster who's talking about something like leadership that you're interested in making better, then you gain better clarity in your goals that in itself is internal motivation on how you move forward and really, how do you start every day to make sure that it's more successful than yesterday? 1 percent forward today is 30 percent in three months. So what are we doing to gain that 1 percent today that makes me a completely different person in another year?
Dorothy Dowling:Thank you for that framework, Dom, because I do think that concept of leveling up. I'm a big fan of Warren Buffett and I love the way he talks about learning because he talks about it as being compound interests. Which is exactly what you talked about. The 1 percent today becomes 30 percent over time. So I thank you for sharing so much of your learning journey, Dawn, the wisdom that you have gained through your journey and sharing it with everyone that's listening and viewing this today. And I wish you continued success with your career. Cause I'm a big fan. So thank you for being part of our show.
Dawn Gallagher:Thank you, Dorothy.
Dorothy Dowling:And if I could also thank our audience because if you've enjoyed this interview with Don, I hope you will visit us on our website, DEI advisors. org, where you will see webcasts and podcasts from other industry leaders that I know will empower your knowledge and fuel your spirit. So I hope to see you there, Don, thank you again for being part of our DEI advisor community. And again, I wish you all the best.
Dawn Gallagher:Thank you.