Winnie shares her story of rising in a field traditionally dominated by men. We discuss formal and informal mentorship, her focus on staff development, and how she overcame the “Imposter Syndrome”. She offers her thoughts on taking risks and advice to her younger self and self-empowerment.
Winnie shares her story of rising in a field traditionally dominated by men. We discuss formal and informal mentorship, her focus on staff development, and how she overcame the “Imposter Syndrome”. She offers her thoughts on taking risks and advice to her younger self and self-empowerment.
Greetings. I'm David Kong. I'm the founder and principal of DEI Advisors. We are a non profit organization based in Arizona. Today, I'm delighted to welcome Winnie Ho. She's the vice president of digital and technology solutions at MGM and Macau. Winnie, welcome to our show.
Winnie Ho:David, thank you for having me here and I would love to share some of my experience with all your listeners.
David Kong:I can't wait to hear that. Winnie, let's start with your career journey. Technology is not usually a field that women choose and yet you've done extremely well heading up technology solutions at MGM. Can you tell us more about your career journey and Some of the factors that contributed to your success.
Winnie Ho:Sure. Let me share a little bit on my background first. I grew up in Macau, a small city near Hong Kong, which was once a Portuguese colony, and it got returned to China in 1999. Macau is also known as the Monte Carlo of the Orient. It's a tourist city and is famous for its casinos. My career journey has been greatly influenced by my mother's experience. She faced poverty and had to drop out of school to support her family when she was very young. So her hope for me was to attend college, study something that's easy to find a job. And need a comfortable and independent life. As a result, I have all her support when it comes to studies. I went to study college in Canada. And in the hope of fulfilling my mother's wish, I choose computer science. As my major believing that it has always potential to find a job easily after my graduation. So I began my career as a software engineer in high tech companies working alongside with lots of talented scientists. I discovered that my passion is not solely on technology, but in. The problem solving aspect of it tackling complex tech issues through coding became like a game line challenge for me, technology becomes a tool for me to solve problems. effectively. Fast forward a few years, we got the tech bubble burst 2000 early to that early year 2000, right? I find myself working in a high tech startup company in Silicon Valley, while also becoming a new mother. Unfortunately, the startup went under just Two weeks after my maternity leave ended, I find myself struggling on whether to continue to work or to be a stay at home mother. I know perfectly well that it's a good opportunity for me to stay home to take care of my child instead of putting him to daycare. But I also love working, be financially independent. And mostly being scared to have the feeling that I am isolated and lack of social life if I become a housewife. But at last, with my husband's support, I decided to be a stay at home mother because I wanted to be more involved in my son's early stage of life. And He will never be a baby again if I miss this opportunity, but during the same year, my mother was diagnosed with late stage cancer in Macau. I was devastated by the news. I struggled on whether to go back to Macau to take care of my mother or not. At that time, I was thinking like, how could I leave my 14 month son alone with my husband? But I really want to take care of my mom because That could really be my last opportunity to spend time with her, and she also needs my support. I thought about it. I ended up asking for help from my mother in New Orleans. who was in Toronto at that time to take care of my son. So I fly my son to Toronto and then I fly back to Macau to accompany my mother to go through all the surgeries and medical therapies. Three months later. I was so fortunate that my husband actually got a job in Macau. He then fetched my son back from Toronto, and Macau became our new home. And for the next couple of years, I prioritized myself to take care of my mother and my son. Fast forward a few years later, my mother got better, and my son gets older. I miss my job. And I figured that it's time for me to find something. And like my mother has hoped for, It was easy for me to find a job with a computer science degree and I got a job in the IT department of an integrated resort. At that time, I have absolutely no idea. What the I T role is in hospitality industry apart from fixing pcs. So starting the job with zero knowledge being a woman and have colleagues who were significantly younger than me, I always feel anxious that I am incompetent when compared to others. However, that drove me to work harder, ask more questions and realize that as an older woman, people didn't expect me to know everything. So it makes it easier for me to seek guidance and stand out from the crowd. And later on, I find out that despite the differences, I really learned from the high tech industry. My passion for problem solving has remained. I find that I enjoy to use technologies to help to improve the customer experience, improve work efficiencies of staff, and help increase company revenue. And. I do believe that having passion in what I do help me excel in my career. And to conclude, I find my life and career experience has told me that life could take me to something unexpected anytime. Therefore, I now will choose to go all in on career opportunities that I wanted and focus on things within my control. Personal empowerment for women is many times more difficult than men. Because we have to play various roles in our lives. More than often, we have to work much harder than others to get what we want. I find out that one important aspect for me to be where I am now is the support network that I have. I got the support from my family, my boss. I remember David, one of your guests, said we need to hire the right boss, and my colleagues. And if you think you don't have your support network, I say build one and don't be afraid to ask help. So I guess that's my career journey so far.
David Kong:Such a wonderful story and so heartwarming. I'm just really happy that your mom is fine, and you have such a supportive and understanding husband to0,.You're very fortunate. And like you said, it's often difficult for women to build their career because they have to wear so many hats. They are a daughter. They are a mother, a wife, and they have to work and there's so many things that they have to juggle throughout their whole career. It's very difficult. Now, you've mentioned the support network, which is crucial to our success. And you mentioned family, you mentioned your boss. I didn't hear you mention mentors or advocates. Do you have any experience with anybody who has taken you under their wings? and help you with your career. Maybe you can share some experience in that regard.
Winnie Ho:When I first become a people manager, I vividly remember how much I wanted a mentor. Someone I could turn to for advice and guidance. While some may suggest that I can go to my boss, remember I hired my the right boss. There are still certain things that I hesitate to share with him because I didn't want it to undermine his perception for me. And I longed for a female mentor, someone who understand and related to the unique challenges that I face as a woman and a minority in the tech industry, as well as the difficulties of balancing work and family. Unfortunately, I never had the opportunity to find such a mentor at that time. But as I get older, and maybe wiser, I now realize that there have been numerous individuals who have mentored me, even without their knowledge. This have played a significant role in shaping my personal and professional growth. I might not have a formal mentor, but I do benefit from mentorship in some sort. I guess I would imagine. That mentors from underrepresented groups are still scared today, and that's why I have been volunteering myself to mentor young women and individuals from underrepresented backgrounds in the industry. I think women should pull women up whenever there are opportunities. And I want to be part of their support network because I know how much they want my support. And I know having them as my mentee will also help me grow.
David Kong:That's wonderful to hear. Now, I recognize what you said earlier that sometimes you didn't even know that someone was helping you or at the time you didn't realize someone was actually mentoring you. But how would someone proactively go about finding mentors and advocates to help them with their careers?
Winnie Ho:I like to talk to people in senior position. And every so often through the conversation, you will find great insight. From them for example, I remember when I was in the opening team of MGM Macau, I often have the chance to work with the the CFO and the COO of the company. And I remember that our COO once asked me do you know how you can get the attention of someone given that someone might be very busy? anD I said, I don't know. Talk to him. And then he just hold up his phone. At that time, it was February. And he said send an email and craft your email and make sure that your first line. Catch the attention of the one that you want to talk to. I was thinking, wow, this is a very good piece of advice. And ever since I have been using it.
David Kong:That is a good piece of advice. Thank you. And mentors and advocates don't need to be formal, as you mentioned earlier. They are instrumental to anyone's success. Thank you for sharing those stories. Let's talk about the many accolades you have received, leading technology solutions at MGM. What's the source of your inspiration and how did you become so successful?
Winnie Ho:To be honest, participating in awards and competition was not a priority for MGM IT due to the resource constraints and the belief that we have more pressing tasks at hand. However, a few years ago, the Macau Telecommunication Bureau launched the Macau Smart Hotel Award. Which aim to recognize hotel in Macau that enhance business efficiency and optimize customer experience through the use of technology. This award caught my attention because first, it is the very first award that I came across that is organized by a local government. And being a personal witness on how our I. T. Power solution has enhanced our customer experience and how ourself works. I figured that it was a it is a great opportunity to affirm my thoughts. On how good we are and where we are at comparing to other hotels in Macau. So we decided to enter the competition as I expected. We were honored with the highest recognition in the award. What I didn't anticipate was the impact that it had on our team. As we prepared a submission. I personally witnessed that our staff pride in their work and their firm belief. in our ability to win. Participating in this competition brought us closer together working a common goal. I see all these positive impacts from entering those awards and therefore it has driven me to continue to Put effort in striking the balance between work and entering awards. And because of that, it has keeping us an ongoing stream of, working getting accomplished helping the company and continue to get more awards.
David Kong:That's great. Congratulations on your recognition. And it's so wonderful to instill pride in your team. Great story. Thank you for sharing that. Now I've heard you say that talent is the most important asset of an organization, and you put significant time and effort into talent acquisition and retention. Can you share with us some of the efforts that you've put in, and your success stories?
Winnie Ho:Sure, I can share some of my experience. I would say that most hotels use similar technologies, if not identical, if I may. So the only differentiator between successful Or unsuccessful. Implementation is the execution and how we put technology together and how we implement them. So I concluded that technology itself. It's not the technology itself that make the difference, but it's the people and their ideas. Talent requisition may seem like an HR thing, but I always believe that like minded people attract each other. So that's why I invested a lot of time in letting people know about me and my team. activities such as discord cards presentation and universities and supporting mentorship internship program, I think will help to get the public know about the team and hence attract more talent from retaining talent. Perspective. I think it is really difficult in such a competitive market, and especially when people know that we are in the forefront of technology and our people always become target easily. I think the key to retain talent is to understand that individual goal. I invest time in understanding myself schools and help them to paint a picture. On what it takes for them to achieve their goals with that current job. So as a leader, I always keep my door open. I am honest on my feedback and I encourage others to give feedback to me as well. My goal is for all my immediate staff to be able to clearly tell their own strength and area for improvement. I also encourage them to do the same with their own support. So they can find themselves that on their values with us and although see their career path easily, so they will retain with us.
David Kong:That's great. And just curious. Technology is such a hot field right now. And there're so many companies looking for technology talent. MGM is a casino operation, and you have a big I. T. Department. But at the same time, the career progression isn't as good as a place like Google or Amazon or one of those tech companies. How do you actually build a career path and retain the talent?
Winnie Ho:First of all, I truly believe that different people want a different career path. Let's say, when I have my kids that I, that were young, I might want to career path that might be a little bit slow and so that I will have time for my kids. And some people who are in their 20th without kids, without a family, they might want to put a lot of effort to excel their career ladder. So hence, I have I like what I said, I, one I want to build is I will cater a career path based on what they. Need and I will feed what they need to what we have what we can offer from the MGM perspective and help them to get what they want. And so as to help the company.
David Kong:That's great to hear. Thank you. Let's talk about imposter syndrome. Many of the underrepresented groups have talked about the imposter syndrome, the feeling that they don't belong. Have you experienced that? And if so, how do you shift your mindset-become more productive and constructive.
Winnie Ho:As an Asian woman in tech, I am aware that I'm part of an underrepresented group. I think imposter syndrome can be divided into two parts. The first part is, doubting one's skills and talent. And the second part is to fear of being exposed as a fraud. I experienced both in my life journey. And I want to talk about the second part first, the fear of being exposed as a fraud. I remember that one our ex CEO Mr. Graham Bowie once said in a public speech that there is no need to hide any mistake. Because people can see so I told myself that if if I am a fraud with or without fear is already a fact and people can see it already. So that part I overcome it because I keep telling that and in terms of the first part, like having doubts about my skills and my talent. Think I don't necessarily it's not necessary about overcoming them completely. Instead I will try to channel these feelings into actions that I can improve myself. And by doing so, I can turn my negative feelings into positive forces that drive me to learn and grow. However, there are times that those feelings could still persist. And sometimes, unconscious bias helps reinforces those feelings. So what I normally do is I will choose to share my feelings with someone. I will go to someone that I trust, someone who is not in my profession functional area so that they can be more objective. But then, most of the time They only need to listen because more than often when I put my feelings into words, the feelings and the imagined. And also the fact will come out easily. And that helps me to overcome those feelings.
David Kong:Those are great lessons and great advice for the audience. And I know many people have talked about overcoming the imposter syndrome by doing something constructive and positive. As you have mentioned, get better at something. It's a motivation to be even stronger than you are. And having a support network, like you mentioned, is important. Someone whom you can share some of these feelings with, that's really good advice. Now, a lot of people on our show have attributed taking risks to their success. And I was just wondering, what's your experience in terms of taking risks? And if you have taken big risks before, how do you prepare yourself mentally to take on those risks?
Winnie Ho:I have to confess that I am adverse to certain type of risk. For example, last week I was in Taiwan and my friends tried very hard to make me ride a bike to commute around busy streets in the Taipei City. I simply refused to do that. So call me a risk adverser, if you may. But having said that I think I am doing pretty good at taking other risk risk that can possibly have big impact to my life, things like becoming a housewife, moving back to Canada and I do think the biggest risk that I have taken in my life is having kids. Like most of the risks that we take, if we fail, you know what? We can do it over, but for having kids, you cannot undo a person. Kudos to all the mothers and fathers. I think they are all great risk takers. And speaking of taking risks in my career, I say the prerequisite of my role already required me to be a good. Calculated risk taker, as I have to consistently make decisions on technologies and be innovative on solutions, right? But as a woman in tech industry, I think it is more about whether people allow me Today risks whether others have the faith in me. Listen to me. That on what I want to do and accept my ideas. iN order for me, in order for people to earn my to earn in order for me to earn others approval, my solution to that is I give others the chance to know me, work with them, And gradually build the trust and let them see the work I delivered. This way people will start value me for who I am, but not simply judge for what I am. I think the solutions has been working pretty well for me so far.
David Kong:It has indeed. Look at the awards that you have won and the reputation you enjoy in the industry. You are right about building trust. I think that's fundamental to anybody's success. Now we have all faced our fair share of challenges in our career, and I was just wondering if you can share some of the challenges that you have faced and how you muster up the courage and resilience to eventually prevail.
Winnie Ho:There are people out there who are afraid of height. And, they will seek out high places often to test themselves. I think I am one of those. I believe that by pushing my Boundaries little by little, I can build up my resilience and to take challenges. To give you my example I am very scared of public speaking. Although a lot of people will doubt me because I have been doing a lot. it Was my worst nightmare, but instead of avoiding it. I decided to face it head on. I joined the Toastmasters Club. I give presentations at universities and clubs, and I join panel discussions. A couple of years ago, I even started learning Mandarin because Mandarin is my challenge. So at my age, I find a Chinese teacher and teach me to speak Mandarin, and a couple of months ago, I did my very first Mandarin work speech in mainland China, and I feel so good about it. So I really think, that if I continuously putting myself bit by bit into small challenge, I can eventually get myself prepared to go for bigger ones.
David Kong:You are so right. You have to face your challenges head on. And I love what you said about Toastmaster and speaking at different forums or universities to improve your public speaking skills. You're an exceptional speaker. I think anyone listening to this interview will find that you are very accomplished in that regard. By the way, we have something in common. I, too, joined Postmaster. I did that for three years about 30 years ago, and I really enjoyed that. And it greatly Improved my public speaking skills. Till this day, I'm still very watchful for my ar's and ums and other fellow words.
Winnie Ho:Me too. I love the support system that they they have been providing me. Yeah,
David Kong:It's a wonderful program. Now we are running a little low on time. I have two more questions. I'd like to ask you. The first one is you are much more experienced now, but looking back at your career journey, what advice would you give to your younger self?
Winnie Ho:Oh, okay. I remember I heard the same answer from your previous podcast. I would advise her to take more breaks and time out. I don't know. It is probably the result of imposter syndrome. I tend to work hard, very hard, and I have made some regrettable decisions and mistakes in the past when I pushed myself too hard. I learned lessons the hard way, but because of that, it taught me the value of finding a healthy balance. So now I will prioritize myself to take better care of myself and allow myself to take regular breaks. I even put it on my calendar to make sure that I take a break during the day to freshen up my mind.
David Kong:That's wonderful advice. Thank you for sharing that. I especially like the one that's about not being so hard on yourself because we, as members of underrepresented groups, tend to push ourselves very hard. We have to try harder and it's good advice that we need to take time to smell the roses and take care of ourselves too. Yeah. Our show is about self empowerment, so I was wondering if you can share some advice on what we can do to empower ourselves.
Winnie Ho:There is a Chinese saying which translates to living in the present moment. It encouraged us to be fully present and engaged in the current moment, rather than thinking about the past or worrying about the future. The future. I think life always take us in an unexpected path that we never anticipated. Personally, I never expected myself to be a housewife and I certainly never imagined myself moving back to Canada, moving back to Macau. However, situation would take us to a different path. And it was during my time as a housewife that I realized how much I enjoyed and missed my beauteous job. So now. I have the opportunity to return to WordPress. I truly treasure every opportunities that come my way. Therefore, my last advice would be to ask our listeners to think about what you really want in life and go for it. So that when you become 80 or 90 years old, you will look back and regret about your life.
David Kong:That's great. I love that. Have a goal in life and go at it with full gusto. I love that. Thanks for sharing that. Thank you. I'm afraid that's all the time that we have. And I really enjoyed this interview. I hope you did too. And to our audience, if you Enjoy the show. We hope you will join us on our website, DEIadvisors. Org. There are many other interviews of this nature and we hope to see you there. Thank you.
Winnie Ho:Thank you David.