Susie Grynol, President & CEO, Hotel Association of Canada interviewed by Dorothy Dowling

Susie Grynol, CEO of the Hotel Association of Canada, shares her remarkable career journey from parliamentary page to leadership. Her strategic planning, empathy, and purpose-driven approach define her leadership style. She played a pivotal role in uniting businesses during the pandemic, collaborating with the Canadian government to support and revive the hospitality industry.

Transcript

Dorothy Dowling: 0:00

Greetings. I am Dorothy Dowling, principal of DEI Advisors. We are a nonprofit organization dedicated to personal empowerment. I am delighted to welcome Susie Grynol the president and chief executive officer of the Hotel Association of Canada to our show. Susie, it is an honor to have you with us today.

Susie Grynol: 0:19

Thank you, Dorothy. Honor to be here.

Dorothy Dowling: 0:22

Well, Susie, I was hoping to get right down to it and you have had quite an amazing career as an association executive for. Several verticals, and I know you've honed your craft over many years, and I'm hoping that you would share your career journey with us.

Susie Grynol: 0:37

Sure. I suppose my political career started in 2000. The Parliament of Canada, every year they select from high school, 40 students from across Canada, and they invite them to Ottawa to participate in what's called page program. So it's the parliamentary page program. And I was selected in 2000 as one of these 40 students that came to Ottawa, so you have to study at the university. And then you get to work on the Hill. And so the job itself is not overly complicated, but it does expose you to some pretty cool things. You get to meet the prime minister, you get to have dinner with the speaker of the house and you're 18 years old and you're on the floor of the house of commons. And, live debate and laws being created and history being made. And you realize that, wow, this is this is a powerful engine and this is our Canadian democracy at play. And for me, I ended up having that experience and staying on the Hill in a bunch of different legislative jobs for about four and a half years while I studied. And then when the House of Commons it dissolves when there's an election. So there was an election. In 2006. And so I decided, you know what, I'm going to, I'm going to have a run in the private sector. And so I got my first private sector job working for a trade association at the time that represented engineering companies. And that was that was an amazing experience. I was there for eight years. I started as a coordinator and I left as a vice president and there I had all kinds of opportunity to to take on projects and to grow and expand. And I went back to school over that time period and really came away with this deep appreciation for the role of the public sector and the private sector and the intersection that is association work. In that job, you are really your job is to understand how your private industry functions and what the complex issues are and the business issues that need to be resolved and come up with solutions for what government can do about it. And then ultimately what you can do to solve them and then mobilize people and governments to get that done. So there I was there for eight years and then I got a recruitment call to move to the retail sector. So the retail council of Canada. largest trade, largest services industry in Canada. And I ran their Ottawa office and I was their spokesperson on federal issues and parliamentary committees and had the opportunity to deal with all kinds of issues and more exposure I was there for I think just over three years. And then I got another call to move into this job, which was, it was from a head Hunter and they said. Would you consider working for the hotel industry? Now, of course, I had some dealings with hotels, of course, because I used to plan conferences when I was with the engineers. And it was similar in the sense that it was a service industry to the to the retail space that I had been working in. And so ultimately I was offered the opportunity and I've been here for the last seven years. And it's really felt like three different jobs, honestly, because the first part of it was rebuilding and dealing with some critical issues like Airbnb and level playing field and growing membership and kind of repositioning. And then there was the COVID years. Those had their own sets of challenges and now we're in the post COVID time period. And this also feels very different than the work I was doing seven years ago. It's been it's been a wild ride.

Dorothy Dowling: 4:05

That's an amazing story. Suzanne, as someone who grew up in Canada, to be selected for that PAGE program, I think speaks to, what an incredible young person you were, because it is a very intense process. So thank you for sharing that. And I'd like to talk a little bit more later on in terms of the skill development. But... What I'd really like to understand is your personal mantra and how that has driven you to choose a life like you have, you're obviously really focused on giving back and having a lot of responsibility in terms of public service. Is there something that has really driven that personal and career commitment?

Susie Grynol: 4:45

I don't have a mantra that's like in a sentence that's written down somewhere laminated, like on a post it on my desk or anything, but I definitely have some guiding principles. And I think the first would be. Be kind, be kind, be a positive force in the spheres within which you operate, whether that's at work or at home or in my volunteer work. I think that's thing one. Thing two is work hard. I guess that's always been a core guiding principle. Work hard, give it your all, show up, get things done. Three would be trust your gut. That's a good lesson that I've learned over time. Four is to set. Goals, and define what success looks like because if you don't know what it looks like then you can't get there So that's always been a guiding principle for me as well. I have a sense of humor. I think there's there's you know, that's core to who I am and it's been brought into my professional space and I think it's I don't take myself too seriously and, definitely find ways to lighten up moments. And I guess the last one would be to stay grateful and grounded. There's all sorts of ways in which you can get wrapped up in. whatever it is that you're dealing with. And I think just staying grounded and grateful in those moments is has always been a focus of mine.

Dorothy Dowling: 6:08

tHose are beautiful thought processes or guiding principles, as you said, Susie, I particularly like the one about establishing metrics and figuring out what success looks like, because I do think a lot of times that can be nebulous. And I think particularly in the association space where you have so many different stakeholders, making sure everyone is on the same page relative to what success is going to look like is really important. So thank you for sharing that. I'm also wondering as your career has evolved, if there have been any particular individuals that have championed your career, mentors, allies if you can share anything about how they might have helped you in terms of shaping your career success, because it's really quite remarkable. You're very young to achieve many of the milestones that you have in your career. So I'm sure you've had a few champions along the way.

Susie Grynol: 6:59

I definitely have. I've been so lucky. I've got about five or six sort of phone of friends mentors that I routinely call on when I'm dealing with whatever issue digital. And but there's one in particular that I would highlight. And it was my first boss when I came into the engineering job and, it couldn't have been more than a couple of months in the job. And he sat me down and he said to me, Susie what's your end goal? Where do you want to be? What's your 5, 10, 15 year plan? Where do you want to be? And at that point I'd been there long enough to know that the association space was fascinating and intriguing that there was some really important work that could be done in that space, and I also had a, an understanding now that my, my run In Parliament and all of the relationships but exposure to how the system works and all of the political dynamics and posturing and positioning and ultimately how legislation gets through Parliament was really valuable. And so I went away and thought about it and I came back to him not long after and I said, I think I want your job. Not today, but by I eventually want to be the CEO. And he goes, great. He goes, I thought you might say that. And so he goes let me help you get there. And we sat down and mapped out how I might become a CEO and I'm in my early twenties at this point. And, he said, this is the association world. These are the people that you need to get to know. This is volunteer work that you want to do to build out your areas where you're not going to get exposure to some of those core competencies at work. You probably want to go back to school. And I was debating between an MBA or a, a specialized professional designation in association management, which is the same concept, but running a non for profit. And so I went back to school and I did that work and he gave me all kinds of opportunities to, to run big projects and cut my teeth and get exposure to all kinds of projects and people to make mistakes and he really had my back over that time period. It was a gift. I think if I could point back to one moment in time, it would have definitely been that conversation, which I think set my career path. On an accelerated pace, for sure.

Dorothy Dowling: 9:21

I think that is a great story, and I think it really frames up intentionality in terms of building out career intentions and the goals and the metrics that you want to achieve, Susie and I often encourage people to do the same because the intentionality means that you're going to build out all the kinds of important skills, you were indeed very fortunate to have someone like that so early in your career take you under his wing and help shape some of that direction. I know when you took on the Hotel Association of Canada, there was an awful high there were a lot of expectations in terms of turnaround. I, obviously being a Canadian I quite familiar with the Hotel Association and, I'm just wondering if you can talk a little bit about that because coming in new out of the industry, you had to build relationships, you had to figure out how to mobilize and really influence people in terms of their strategic thinking. So I'm wondering if you can talk through about how you went about building, nurturing, developing all those professional relationships.

Susie Grynol: 10:26

I think at the core of it all um, I love people and so I'm, I'm in the, I'm in the right business because this is definitely a people business. I Love people and I love knowing people's stories and being curious about their experiences and what they've been through and what they're currently dealing with and, where they are in the world and what their kids names are. And, so I always. Start every conversation, whether it's with my staff or, any other relationship asking how people are doing as a human being and, it's not a line. I actually care how people are doing as a human being. And, you pick up over time what people are dealing with. And if you remember the names of their kids, and then you can follow up on, On, on how they're doing and you see them for who they are and not just somebody that is working on a project or that you need to influence I think it builds a sense of trust and authenticity. That is a. a really strong baseline when you then need to work with people. And so I think that's number one seeing people for who they are and and acknowledging what they're dealing with and that connection point is really important, I think. I think to mobilizing people and getting, influencing thinking is, it's really about helping people understand their role in what it is that you're trying to achieve. So if you're talking to, a member of parliament, for example, and, you're not there to share industry data and statistics. You're there to say, look, if you do this policy or this change, you can. Unlock this potential. You can deal with this particular problem and then it has this impact on Canadians. So I think it's about connecting the dots. So people feel like they're part of the solution and they're motivated to want to do something about it. And I, and as I think about. My, my staff in particular and, connecting with them and I suppose for any leader who's running an organization with people, people are the greatest people are your greatest asset at the end of the day. And I think increasingly, we're seeing people, not just the younger generation, but definitely pronounced in the younger generation. Are looking for purpose and they're looking When they look for a job, it's no longer that they go and look for the job. They look for companies first They look to see what those companies represent and What they stand for and whether or not there's alignment with their own personal convictions and what that company stands for and then if all those boxes are checked Then they look for whether or not there's a job working for that organization. I think purpose is really important. I think that, the businesses that can um, communicate that purpose and help people feel like they're part of an outcome, and then, once people are working for you, even if they're doing a, they're paying the bills or they're doing an administrative task where they're in a senior leadership role. I think having every person being acutely aware of what that overall vision is and how they fit into it brings that sense of purpose to life. And I have found that this certainly creates a sort of nurturing, meaningful environment for people if they can feel that connection. You spend most of your time at work and not at home, and so when you're there I think as leaders, we have the opportunity to make sure that people feel like their time is valued.

Dorothy Dowling: 13:59

Well, Susie, I think that's a brilliant synopsis of really what great leadership is all about, and leaders drive culture, purpose is part of culture, and I definitely agree with you that all people are looking to contribute and be valued where they work. So I think, all of the elements that you've identified are critically important. I think the only other piece that I would add to what you offered is people also looked at the leader of the organization. I've always told individuals they should be very careful about hiring their boss, and I'm sure beyond just the purposeful work that you do at the Hotel Association of Canada, also having the opportunity to work with someone like you, and I'm sure just like your mentor did for you early on in your career, you extend that same privilege to a lot of your teammates as well. Yes. So I'm wondering if we can move on a little bit. I'd like to talk about risk taking. I think the most telling example we have of that in our industry is really COVID really impacted all of us. And, Canada in particular went through a much deeper shutdown in terms of the kind of exposure and managing some of those situations. And I'm just I would like to understand because you were incredibly successful. Your leadership, I think, really speaks for itself. But I'd like to hear from you how you mobilize the industry when everybody was just hoping to survive and how you were really successful in helping the government in terms of understand. What they needed to do and support the industry. So I'm hoping you can share a little bit more about that with our audience. Sure.

Susie Grynol: 15:45

COVID was such a strange time for the world, there was so much unknown and you had a government that was. Trying to understand a virus and had people dying in long term care homes and were trying to procure vaccine and deal with these very live, scary and all consuming topics. Not the least of which was what do we do with the Canadian economy that we needed to put in a comatose over that period. And of course, as the... The hardest hit of the hardest hit sectors was was our sector and the hotel industry of that group was the hardest hit. And I think it was on their mind, certainly, as they were shutting things down, but, Not every sector was at risk of a complete collapse, like ours was. And part of... Getting the government's attention on this was the data work that we did to understand and diagnose the challenge, which we were running surveys every 48 hours. And the results of those surveys were showing that. On average, about 50 percent or up to 60 percent of the industry was forecast to shutter permanently within a matter of, weeks or months. And so we weren't talking about a few hotel closures here. We were talking about mass dislocation. And I'm not sure the government actually understood that until we brought it to them in those terms and started to talk about What would it mean for Canadians and for government if you went to book your next business trip or your next holiday and there literally was no hotel in that region, what would it mean for communities in the north who only have the one or two hotels in terms of their ability to get even public services like we started to reframe the importance of our sector as being an enabler Of global commerce and a central core pillar of communities. And then we'd started to talk about what it would look like if they disappeared. And then we also needed to have 3000 media interviews so that the general public also understood this risk. And it meant something to them because if the government started to give a bunch of money to a sector. Like this, the hotel, hospitality and tourism sector, there needed to be a permission structure. The general public needed to be on side and go, yeah, yes, that's a really good move that they weren't going to get criticism for it. And people thinking that their time should be better spent on. Other things other than, spending money on keeping these businesses afloat. And so we did that work with the media and we were able to introduce a, an element of sympathy and understanding for the situation that we were dealing with. And that really created it laid the groundwork for the government to then. We had to have a meaningful conversation with us. Okay what does this actually look like? And then that part was equal part complicated as well because, the tourism sector is very fragmented. All of the different facets of the tourism industry were being impacted and everybody was coming to government with a similar, but slightly different message. And, here they were in crisis trying to figure out what they were going to do about this. And you had all these different groups that were all over the place. And one of the things that we did at that time, we were the founder of a group called the coalition of the hardest hit businesses. And so we brought together more than 200 different business associations in the tourism and hospitality space. And we brought them all around a table and we said, look can we all agree on three things? Even though I know we're all asking there, there are some core elements here. And the three things are that we keep the sector alive. Tourism and hospitality that we have an industry still standing on the other side of it that we protect our employees with wage subsidy support, and then we keep the businesses intact. If we can agree on those 3 principles, we will build out the policy and the supports and what it looks like, we'll form a steering committee, we'll bring the policies to them, we'll make sure that it's vetted and everybody's on board, and then we'll bring it to government as a united voice. And so that's what we did. We ran 14 different campaigns over that time period, public and government relations campaigns. It's not enough to just bring the solution, you actually have to make sure that all members of parliament are on side, and the Senate's on side, and and do that multiple times through different iterations of of legislation. And it was that alignment, I think, that was the key to our success. And then on top of that, by having all these groups around a table, we also then represented this massive voice in the industry of more than 2 million employees. And then that started to mean something. We became a. In the sea of urgent issues, we became a big one. We became we made a fire. We made ourself matter. We made the government pay attention and pay attention. They did. They did respond. And we were fortunate to play a leadership role in, in that process but honestly, the success belongs to. Our members who showed up in a meaningful way and had their voice heard while they were on their knees, they were fighting for their own survival, and it allows, it allowed us to have like surgical precision and in the way that we responded to government in how many letters we were able to get through to government on a particular day or like social, a social pressure on social media when we knew there was a decision being made, Or, even, virtual Parliament Hill days. It was, we were able to really lean into our industry and they showed up in such a meaningful way, not just the hotel industry, but the tourism industry broadly. And that's how we were able to get the kind of outcomes which ultimately in, in total was$23 billion in government support. And it's the reason we still have a sector still standing today.

Dorothy Dowling: 21:32

So I know you talk about it being a team effort, Susie. I do know that you are very instrumental in leading that and connecting the dots and building the narrative in terms of the support that you received across multiple sectors, as well as. With all the different legislative bodies that you were able to influence, I'm, I'm trying to, it was such a mammoth situation and a task, but I'm trying to think about if you had to share with the audience, the lessons that you learned that they might apply. Potentially not in such a critical situation, but in other situations. If there's any tips that you would say were big learnings through that process?

Susie Grynol: 22:21

I think the learning is that you go further together. At the end of the day, this was an exercise of of pulling people together and it might not have been exactly what every one of those groups wanted for their own interest, but it was. The core asks were certainly there was enough commonality that it was in. Everyone's interests. And people took a little bit of water with their wine and there was lots of active debate and compromise, but ultimately we ended up with the right outcome on the other side. And, and at the end of the day, I think that speaks to collaboration. It speaks to strong, decision making it speaks to wisdom because there was a lot of leaders around that table that needed to go back and have hard conversations with their constituents. tHis isn't going to be the thing that we want or it is, or we need to get on side or and I think people really saw the forest from the trees in, in that crisis situation. Put their egos aside and showed up in a really meaningful way. And it allowed us to get organized and present a voice to government that was coordinated. And, um, the lesson there is that. Alignment and group work and getting consensus is always the best way forward because you can go further together than you can alone.

Dorothy Dowling: 23:50

I Think the industry as a whole, I think we all experienced that. At teamwork and how we were fighting a common enemy together. And I think it forged a lot of deep relationships that are still active today. But I just for one would like to thank you for your leadership, Susie, because you really were someone that was a catalyst for change. And I think you brought. a Very strategic approach to building that coalition and, um, getting everyone on side to, to tell the story in such a succinct way. If I may I'd like to also just ask you a little bit about your public speaking, because I've seen you on stage quite frequently. You're brilliant. You're one of the best speakers in the room, always. You bring a sense of energy and you always are on point. I'm wondering if you would share with the audience how you prepare because I've seen you in long sessions, I've seen you in short sessions, but you are always at the top of your game. So what would you share with the audience?

Susie Grynol: 24:49

That's very kind of you to say. Thank you, Dorothy. I guess I'd say, three things. First prepare, second is practice, and the third one would be connect. When I say prepare, and this would be true of whether you're speaking to an audience or whether you're going into a business meeting, really taking the time to prepare and understand who you're talking to, who's in the room what do you need to achieve, what are the messages that you need to get across, but what's also going to resonate with them how it's going to land, and then, if you do your homework right and you land on these are the core things that this audience needs to hear, that's half the battle. But it's important work. You really need to spend the time to go through all of that and make sure that if you're speaking, to an audience that you've got the right data points and that it's stuff that matters to them. It's more effort, but it certainly is more impactful if you get to the right pieces of information. That's thing one. Thing two is practice though. There's, you can go up on a stage with the right presentation and without practicing and say whatever comes to your mind, but the trouble with that is that it'll be twice as long as if you practice it and you make it. Concise and you really hone in on, on the most effective language, and I often think of people in a room as you got to be respectful of their time. They don't, people start to tune out after, I think the statistic is 18 minutes with one person speaking. So you've got to use every one of those 18 minutes and make sure that you're not using superfluous words or language that people are not tuning out that what you're. Saying is really resonating with them and you're doing it in the fewest words possible. I would say practice is important. And then the third one would be connection. You can stand on a stage and you can say all the things that you need to say and you can say it really well. But unless you can connect with the audience in a meaningful way you won't be as memorable. And I think what people take away from, using a conference as an example, they take away how they felt when you spoke. And I think making it about them. It's about, what they can bring to the table and how they can contribute to the cause and the role that they play. And if you can connect it, it's a bit like what I was talking about earlier. If you can connect it to the kind of end goal and have people feel like their voice matters, then they're motivated to actually go out and do the thing that you want them to do. But if they feel like you're just up on a stage and, if I send this letter to my MP or I have this conversation, but it's not really going to matter they're not going to be as motivated. So I think you really do have to explain that their voice has an impact. And if you can help people see that. They, I think will ultimately do the thing that that you need them to do because they feel like it's a good use of their time.

Dorothy Dowling: 27:51

I think what you're really talking about is that respect for everyone in the room and the alignment that, I think you do so well Susie, but I do fundamentally believe that. Preparation and practice is something that many people do not dedicate themselves to and that is something that I think is extraordinarily important advice for people to take from you because as I said you are someone who always shines on stage. And so knowing that you invest that kind of effort, I think is a good message for us all to take away. Yeah,

Susie Grynol: 28:23

it's not effortless. No, and I know that about you. But there's definitely a lot of prep that goes into to feeling comfortable on a stage and making sure that, you're saying the things that are gonna resonate with the group.

Dorothy Dowling: 28:38

I Do think that you put a lot of effort into doing it well, Susie, and I think that's important for us all to learn. Susie, I'm wondering if we talk a little bit about how you really focus in on prioritizing all of the decision that you make in terms of your. personal life and your work life. I know many women look up to you because you are a mother with three young children and you also are incredibly important in the Canadian environment to the hotel community and you are asked to participate on many stages and in many very important rooms. I'm hoping you might share how you make some of the decisions that you make in terms of supporting your family, your children, and your work and how you prioritize a lot of those scheduling demands.

Susie Grynol: 29:27

I'm not going to lie to you. It is very hard. That's for sure. There's only so many hours in the day but I will share with viewers that it is possible. It is it is all about prioritizing where you spend your time figuring out what things are most important. Obviously time with my kids is critically important. Time with my spouse is important. Time on the road is important. Time doing work. There's moments where I'm pulled into important things that I wasn't planning to be part of. And it's really about building the supports and making sure that they are in place so that you can. You can do the roadwork and do all the all, you can accommodate all of the professional demands on your time. And for some people that might look like, in laws or, extra babysitters or nannies or a spouse or whatever that looks like for you, making sure that, before you step into a big job that you've got all of your bases covered so that you don't have guilt everywhere you go, that if you leave on a business trip, your whole home life is going to fall apart. So those supports are really important, having a spouse that's on board in my case I'm extremely lucky to have a husband who's always been like Go for it. We'll make it work. So that's been really lucky. But I also would suggest that, you can outsource and you need to outsource a lot of things in your life that you might have done up until a certain moment. And then you go, uh, I'm not raking leaves anymore. I'm, I can't be doing that with my weekend time. You can support the local economy and bring people in to help with those types of tasks so that when you are home, You're intentional about where you're spending your time and you're present and those moments that you have with your family and your kids are meaningful and they're memorable and they're the things that you can't outsource. You can't outsource the story reading at night and the snuggles and the tell me about your day and the pillow talk. You've got to be there for those moments and. FaceTime's been helpful, too, so even when you are on the road, sometimes you can do that. You might not be in the room, but you can FaceTime and check in with with your kids. There's even internet on airplanes now, for goodness sakes. The technology is making it easier for people to balance everything. We have lots of apps in our house. We have shared apps for groceries and kids needs and they're all automatically updated so that, we don't have to actually have a conversation. We can the organization of our home is, meticulously done so that we can make sure that we're not dropping balls, but at the end of the day, it is, some days are smoother than others. That's for sure. But it can be done. And I think. The message that I would share with viewers some of whom are probably women or who have daughters, is that it is it is possible if you have all of the right supports in place and it's worth it. I have two little girls and they look up to me and it's important that we pave a path and show women that they. can and should step into those leadership jobs because they have lots of value to offer.

Dorothy Dowling: 32:23

I really appreciate you sharing that Susie and for being so vulnerable in terms of, how you've had to navigate a lot of those challenges. And I do think you're an incredibly important role model because you are you are a mother and you do have young children. So I think just by watching how you navigate a lot of those challenges, I'm sure a lot of women Take note, and they very much appreciate that you are open to sharing some of the tough things that you've had to navigate as well as all of the joy that I know your family and your children bring to you. So we're coming up near the end of our interview, and one of the questions that we ask every DEI advisor is really, the valuable insights that you have gained over your career and your life that you would like to share with our listeners that may just be starting their journeys.

Susie Grynol: 33:17

I guess at the core of it, my advice to really anyone, whether they're young or whether they're, in their, the middle part of their career or even the end of their career is to develop a healthy mindset. And what I mean by that is, figure out the things that really matter to you and light you up. Whether that's, a purpose that you're passionate about or. exercise or, meditation or connection time with the people that matter. I think it's, it is so worth getting that stuff down on paper and figuring out, these are the things that really get me going as a human being. And then in the hours that you have in a day, if you align your time against the things that matter most to you you, you, I think most certainly you'll increase your happiness score on a daily basis, but it's worth doing that work and making sure that that you're you've got clear in your own mind what success looks like, and then you can build. And then you can build towards it. And as a young person, first coming into a career, I think, and I think a lot of young people are doing this, that's why they're looking for purpose and, they're being very choosy about the businesses that they work for. So I think a lot of young people are definitely doing this. My other advice would be. Put up your hand show up take on that extra project cut your teeth, get experience do volunteer work, think about your, you'll have your job, but then, in the time that you have outside of your job, think about what that end job is and where you want to be, and then think about what the deficits are that you have to get there. And then either, either get extra courses or extra volunteer experience that are going to help you round out your skills and ultimately get you to that next job. But it does require an element of sitting down and getting it all down on paper and figuring out where you're going. Because if you don't know where you're going, you never you're not going to know whether you got there.

Dorothy Dowling: 35:15

I Think those are both very important pieces of advice that we can all learn from you, because I do think having joy and happiness in our lives is probably one of the most important things that we can bring to ourselves. As somebody who is much older than you, I will tell you that is my purpose in life. But the other part of... It really is this journey of intentionality, Susie, that I hear coming through in so many different things that you're saying. And, there's always been that old adage, have a plan, work a plan and, or find the plan. And I do fundamentally believe that people that are that intentional about their career and their life, that they are very successful. And I think you're a wonderful example of someone who has had so much intentionality. Bring so much leadership and you light up the room and you light up a lot of people on your journey. I have seen you in the room and how likable you are and how people not only value all the business leadership, but just the personal leadership that you bring to their lives. I would like to thank you for joining us today. I would, I just can't thank you enough for becoming part of our DEI advisor community and all of the wonderful wisdom that you have shared. And if I may just close out with our audience today and really. Suggest if you have enjoyed this interview with Susie, which I'm sure you have, that you'll visit us on DEIAdvisors. org, where it is our website, where you'll see many other leaders like Susie that bring different thoughts and wisdom in terms of how you can empower your knowledge. Feel your spirit and hopefully continue to grow your career. So we hope to see you there, Susie. Thank you again. Sincerely have appreciated this time with you today.

Susie Grynol: 36:58

Thanks, Dorothy. Thanks for having me and thanks for doing all this work. Thanks for shining a spotlight on, on people and talking about their journeys. And I know you're in giving back mode and it's very clear that you're doing just that. So thank you for creating the spotlight and thanks for thinking of me and having me on today. I'm

Dorothy Dowling: 37:14

looking forward to following your career, Susie, because I know there's a lot more to come. Thank you. Bye now.