It's Personal Stories, A Hospitality Podcast

Ama Romaine, General Counsel, Progress Residential, Interviewed by Rachel Humphrey

• David Kong

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Ama shares why she thrives in 1:1 conversations but why public speaking makes her heart race. She discusses how the people around her have impacted her career trajectory and why now it is her turn to do the same for others. Ama talks about why we need to show ourselves as much grace as we show others and how she integrates her work life with the rest of her life.

Rachel Humphrey:

Good afternoon. I am Rachel Humphrey with DEI Advisors, and I am delighted to be joined today by Ama Romine. Ama, welcome to the show. Thanks for

Ama Romaine:

having me.

Rachel Humphrey:

We're going to spend about 30 minutes together learning a little bit more about you and sharing some of the lessons you've learned along the way to becoming Global General Counsel at Blackstone and really appreciate your time. So we're going to jump right in, but tell us a little bit about Your journey to leadership. One of the things I love so much about the hospitality industry is that we all have very different paths to where we end up. So tell us a little bit about your path.

Ama Romaine:

Sure. So I was not. I think if you can look at it 2 ways, right? Which is that when I started my sort of my 1st job, my 1st real job. Or extended job that I had as a high schooler and then into college was working at a restaurant where I was a hostess because I was too young to serve alcohol. And then I was a waitress. And that's probably like my, what I would consider my first hospitality job because as I look back, that's, that's the essence of what those roles were. But certainly moving into the hospitality space as an adult professional, I fell into it. I was a transactional lawyer. I worked at two pretty large law firms White and Forster, and I was just a transactional lawyer and I always knew I wanted to work in house. It was my goal. And one day there was an opportunity to join Choice Hotels. And as a corporate counsel, I think, senior counsel for commercial contracts. And that was my 1st job in hospitality. And from there, I'm, I moved to Hilton where I, my scope broadened and I grew in the. both in terms of the scope of work that I was doing, but also in terms of my level and then moved on to G6. And so I, in many ways, for a long time, I would say I'm not a hospitality lawyer because I'm like what exactly is a hospitality lawyer? But now after having spent the bulk of my year, my career in and around the hospitality industry, I own it. I'm very comfortable calling myself that now. And I actually think I have a A perspective on what that means, right? Which is really just my perspective on the industry, the breadth of time that the length of time I've spent in the industry certainly gives me a perspective on the work we do here. And I think that's what hospitality lawyer is.

Rachel Humphrey:

I think it's incredible too, because when most people think about the hospitality industry, they're really going to think about either property level jobs or other things. They don't necessarily think attorney. You and I have had very different paths yet similar starts to our legal careers. And so for people to get to see that you can be in the hospitality industry and be in the legal profession is a great lesson for everybody. You and I.

Ama Romaine:

Can I say that's a really good point? Because I feel like that's one of the things that people don't think about when they think about hospitality like any other industry. It's a, these are companies that have jobs that run the full gamut, whether it's finance or legal or HR communications or marketing in addition to. The jobs on the front line, which is serving our guests, right? It's the things that people see and understand. But I think it's so important for us to tell that story about the breadth of things that you can do in this industry and the number of skills that can bring you here. If you are someone who's people centered in the way that you want to work.

Rachel Humphrey:

Yeah, I really can't think of a single career that in some ways couldn't be incorporated into the hospitality industry. That's such a great point. People are often interested in how we select some of our guest advisors for D. I. Advisors. And as I learned something about you recently that I found incredibly impactful to me and to my career and to others. When we were at the lodging conference a few weeks ago, and you were moderating the forward panel, the HLA forward panel. You said in front of a packed standing room only crowd that, and I don't want to quote it, but it was something along the lines of this is my worst nightmare standing here having to moderate this panel.

Ama Romaine:

And I immediately

Rachel Humphrey:

was shocked. I've known you for a while. You are brilliant and you are poised and you are articulate and you have an incredible network in this industry. And I just found both your honest sharing in that room of people, but also what you were sharing to be quite a surprise to me. And so tell me a little bit about the public speaking how you get yourself ready for something like that. When you clearly, I think said, yeah, I'd rather be anywhere else right now than public speaking. Cause that's something that a lot of people really struggle to overcome, but can be a really important skill in elevating our careers.

Ama Romaine:

It's so true. And I, for the longest time, even going all the way back to law school really. Feel so much anxiety around speaking in public. And so even in law school, the Socratic method was the bane of my existence. So when I got there and I realized that the whole thing was that they needed to call on me and I needed to stand in front of people and speak, I could have turned, I could have turned right back around. I was like, this is not what I'm here for. I am not the law school cause I wanted to be Perry Mason. I just really do love the law. And I love the idea of, I love so much about. The law, but being the courtroom litigator was never on the list of things that I wanted to do. And so I was really delighted that I found a way that I could practice that did not involve being in a courtroom, right? There's so much that lawyers can do that doesn't require you standing in front of a room full of people. That said, the part that I love is that I'm able to I am. A corporate lawyer, I'm a transactional lawyer. I negotiate all the time. So one on one conversations I love and can do all day, every day, but standing in front of a room of people really it makes my heart race. It makes me uncomfortable. And it was actually when I was at Hilton my, my then GC knew this everyone knew it because I would say it very openly and she would continue. Asking me to do things that required me to speak. And one day I said, I wish you would just let me like sit in my office and hide and just do what I need to do. And she said, no, you have to, I don't remember exactly the words she used, but she basically said, you're just going to have to push yourself. And I think it was the single best thing that she did for me because it really just I was like if I'm going to be forced to have to keep doing this, I'm going to have to find a way to not feel this anxiety every single time, which I still do, but I've learned, I've just taught myself and figured out a long way that a big part of what makes me uncomfortable is feeling unprepared or feeling Yeah. feeling like I'm gonna look stupid. And so I really just try to make sure that I'm overly prepared if I really feel like it's a stage that's really going to cause me a lot of anxiety. And there was another GC actually, who shared once And I think you should interview her Elizabeth Abdu. If you haven't already interviewed her, she should be on your list. But she shared that before every board meeting she would, and I hope she doesn't mind me saying this, but she would rehearse in front of the mirror and to make sure that she was felt really comfortable with the material. And I actually think that's another good. Tip two, right? Speaking out loud before I speak in the room and getting really comfortable with how things are going to sound. Those are all the little tricks that I use now. And I've also just accepted that there's no way that I lead without speaking. So I just say yes. And then I deal with the anxiety after because if I say what I really want to every time someone asks me, I would just say no.

Rachel Humphrey:

That's incredible. And I will tell you that preparation is actually one of the strategies I use as well. I feel like no one is going to over Prepare me. I used it as a trial skill as well because our careers were a little bit different. I was a trial attorney. But I think that preparation then calms you for whatever is coming next and whether it's preparing you for the audience or the people that are on your panel or the topic that you're presenting on, there's a lot of different ways. I think that you can prepare that really help with that. that. I want to turn a little bit because you just talked about the general counsel that you had at Hilton. I may know who that was. As someone who really encouraged you to step outside your comfort zone or to develop this skill that she knew would be so important for your future and talk a little bit about the importance of mentors and champions in your career, but also as you see it now, paying it forward and being able to serve in that capacity for others.

Ama Romaine:

As this is a topic that is near and dear to my heart, because as I look back on the arc of my career, and I realize that I still have quite a ways to go. But I am just really. Struck by what I consider to be these inflection points that all revolve around people right there. There are people faces that I see at every stage of my career that either what I often say, they either held the door open or I held the ladder steady so I could take the next step, and those visuals for me are just really powerful because I feel like the reality is, and it's not even a feeling, the reality is none of us, there's no person who gets to the top without people who are willing to do that who will give a little advice unsolicited maybe sometimes but helpful because the truth is you don't know everything as you're going along your journey, and you need it. You need the feedback. You need the guidance. You need the information so that you understand how you're showing up in a room. You understand what people are looking for when you show up in a room. And sometimes you just need someone to say, give her a chance. Or give him a chance, right? And that happens more than people realize. And it's my sort of personal mission to make sure that I a say that frequently so that people understand, particularly young people coming up in their careers, that getting to the top really requires building relationships broadly and Understanding that people are going to have to help you. I say it to my daughter. I say it to every young person. I speak to that. You're not going to get there alone. It is. It is really a team sport and you just have to be able to rely on others. You have to trust others at some point. And then. You have to do the same, right? The Madeleine Albright quote is one that I really live by, which is that there's a special place in hell reserved for women who don't help other women. But I really think it's just people who don't help other people. I just think we, we all have a duty to reach back and help others on their journey.

Rachel Humphrey:

That's incredible. And I think you touched on such an important point about not doing this on our own. The hospitality industry, I find is incredibly unique because of the deep relationships and networking that transpires, not just on a conference basis. But on that one on one basis but each of us develops those networks differently. My skill set in building relationships might be very different from yours, even if we end up with similar people in our networks. What are some of your character traits that you think you rely on in identifying and building your network?

Ama Romaine:

This is the one that comes easily. So I think if you do buy a little personality analysis this is where I over index. I really am a driven by relationships. I derive energy from from relationships. I also think of more of an ambivert because I also I'm good with alone time, but I really do enjoy engaging with people, meeting people, working with people, being collaborative. For me, that's just a better way to work, and it's just a better way to show up in the world. It's just more enjoyable. It might be my Trinidadian roots. I do love a good party. So I think that for me, the relationship building part of what it takes to be a professional it does come somewhat naturally. But I also there was I attended conference when I was probably around 10 years out of law school. And it was like a mid level managers conference, E. L. C. And they there was one session where the person talked about the difference between people who who show up at work and are what he says. He said it this way doing your job and doing it. Gets you to keep your job because if you're not doing it you're just going to get fired. So the idea that doing your job and doing it well gets you promoted is actually some it's a flawed. It's flawed thinking. And he said that the people who get to the C suite or the people who can influence others influence people and outcomes. And he talked about influence in the context of, people who say I just want to put my head down and do my work. I don't really want to go for this lunch. I don't really want to go to this happy hour. I don't want to go to this social event. I think that the, there's so much that comes out of those. I think it's really important to get those moments out of those conversations that you have that are not about work necessarily, or even a work conversation in that context, right? It can really take a lot of pressure off, you get to know people differently, you get to see people as humans. And it's in those moments of commonality that you build real relationship, right? And relationships. And that's the currency that allows you to be influential when you're at work, right? It's because people, they get to know you, they trust you, they trust your judgment. And then they're able to hear you differently when you're speaking about things. That are difficult. And so that, that was one of the sort of influential pieces for me. And then if you fast forward, like another 10 years, I went to another I was doing the Darden women leadership, women in leadership program. And. They had this interesting network development exercise that they had us all do, which comes out of HBR and what I found very interesting from that exercise is that it's a somewhat scientific way of assessing your network and you answer a series of questions and then you ask yourself whether the people that in your network based on these questions you've answered are likely to help you be successful. Achieve goals that you identified for yourself, like your career goals one to three years out. And when I did that, I was really struck because I before I did it, I wrote my goals. And then I looked at the people in my network based on the exercise. And then I was like, Oh, I actually don't think these people are the people who are going to help me get where I want to go. So that means I'm going to have to do something slightly differently. And I thought that was really interesting because I think when we think about networking, we just think about our friends. And I also, have another mentor who says if everyone in your network looks like you, that's not your network. That's just a circle of friends. So it's really about building breath in terms of the people who you draw, who you call upon for guidance and for. Information and for you're facing a problem and they're just going to help you think it through. It has the more people who are helping you do that, but they come from just a wide variety of backgrounds, right? They look different. They have different life experiences. That's really the network that drives. It's us, that drives leaders, right? And creates real leadership.

Rachel Humphrey:

You mentioned a couple of amazing pieces of advice in there. One is very similar to what David Kong, the founder of DEI Advisors, talks about as the son of immigrants. He was always told, if you work hard, you will be rewarded. And somewhere along the way, he realized there was a lot more to it than that. But that this idea that simply working hard was not enough, despite a lot of us hearing that through much of our childhood. The other thing that you talked about that was support systems. And one of the things that I have found really interesting about a lot of the interviews I've done is how many people have talked about relying on a support system that disagrees with them or calls them out on their BS where they need to be called out. Because we think of a support system in some ways have a very basic. I need people who support me, who make me feel good when I don't feel good. But I love this common theme of, I need people who are honest. I need people who are truthful, who don't look like me, who maybe aren't in the hospitality industry, who aren't lawyers, who whatever it is to talk a little bit about the difference between not just building your relationships in your network, but by really who's on the Personal board of directors, who is that support system for you? And how do you know when you're like, aha, this is somebody that I really need to rely on.

Ama Romaine:

Oh my gosh. I feel like you never really know it's someone that you need to rely on until you've relied on them. So that's taking the last question first. Like I, I, the people who are in my network who I rely on today are people who I. Relied on and maybe didn't realize in the moment was relying on them or that I was going to need them or that they were going to help me in a way they were going to do even more than I. Then the ask, right? So that's one category. And then there are the people who they didn't really ask to be in my support network and I didn't necessarily ask for their advice, but they gave me advice anyway. And I actually think that is one of the places that, that might be, the person I'm thinking about here is actually probably has a huge role to play in with how I got to where I am, because I feel like this was someone who helped me to see myself in ways that I didn't see myself and which is interesting, right? We see I know my, I think I know my weaknesses. Yeah. I think I know my strengths, but then there's some when we think when we're thinking about leadership and we're thinking about becoming leaders in organizations, there, there are a whole different set of unwritten rules that people don't know about. Right? And it shows up in things like presence and, how you influence and whether you're ready. And these kinds of questions are really difficult to put your finger on. And so you really do need people who are going to, basically hold up a mirror and basic and allow you to see yourself slightly differently and maybe challenge you to think about how you're showing up. Slightly differently. So another example of this, and this is not even from the person, but, from one of these programs that I did is, they gave an example of if you had 100 million dollars and you had to give it to someone to manage for you, would you give it to the person who was running around looking really busy, seeming a little disheveled, seeming like they're here is on fire or would you give it to the person who was Seeming really calm and in control and like unflappable and the obvious answer is you would give it to the person who seems calm and unflappable. So when you said that you see me as someone who's calm, that's actually really considered right? Thinking about making sure that I'm showing up and leaving. Leaving. How do they frame it? That you're leaving the room or the impression that you're leaving in a room is the one that you want to leave and not one that you're unintentionally leaving, right? So it's just being very intentional about how you show up and realizing and it's like the outliers. Is it outliers? No, blink is the book, right? That people form opinions and our brains form opinions in about seven seconds. And so it really because We're relying on prior knowledge. And so really how we show up, people make quick judgments, snap judgments about us in those, early moments. And when I think about the support system, going back to your question. It's really identifying the people who, to your point, will share, will tell you what you need to hear and not what you want to hear. It's also about us being willing to do the same for others, right? Being able to give difficult feedback maybe unpopular feedback or feedback people don't even really want because we know that it will make them better and we know that it will help them to go further. And I think we all particularly for those of us who've, been around a little bit longer, I think we really. have a responsibility to do that for the, those coming up, because I feel like, frankly, the things that I learned in the last 10 years, if I knew them 20 years ago, I could have gotten there a lot sooner. At least that's

Rachel Humphrey:

what I to talk in a couple minutes about what you would tell yourself. 20 years ago, but you touched on a couple of great topics. I want to follow up a little bit for a minute. If you only have a split second to make an impression, but also you want to be very intentional with how people see you know you. I did an interview recently where someone said my name is my personal brand. And I learned that early on. Looking someone in the eye when I shook hands, telling them my story, knowing what exactly I wanted to be saying, talk a little bit about your personal brand, if you have one and how it may have evolved over time or what you would want people to think of when they think of you,

Ama Romaine:

I, I think it does evolve. If I go back about 10 years I would have. Felt like my personal brand was I want to say being likable, but it sounds so it sounds trite, but I would have liked people to think of me as someone who's accessible and someone who that they, who they could get along with and who is obviously good at what I do, but I definitely would have wanted people to like me. And that is still true, but I think today I am much, I think a lot more about the impact that I want to make and everything that I do, particularly in my practice, whether it's as a general counsel or whether I'm helping others mentoring others, I just want to really be make, I want to be impactful because I think that's my responsibility, right? To whom much is given I feel like I've come so far and I've been really pretty successful in my career, but I really want to spread that because I feel like it's possible to do that. If I keep everything that I've learned to myself, then that's great for me. But the more people I can share with, and I really love what you guys are doing through advisors, but the more people who can hear get some nuggets and some pearls of wisdom and just learn little things that they can incorporate into their journey the more leaders we will have. Because I think one of the things that we don't talk a lot about as professionals, I think, is that if you go back in time, We've always had leaders. Some people were always getting to the top. And a lot of that is based on informal networks, right? Informal advisors who basically coach and shape and guide and, give people sort of these secrets that we're talking about. And my goal is to make sure that I. Do the same thing, but I do it as broadly as possible. Because I think that's what's going to create opportunities for more and more people to become leaders. And when I and more and more people, but specifically women and people of color, who I think are usually less frequently in these informal networks, right? If everyone at the top, if we say most people at the top are men, then me. And the presumption is that we tend to help people that are most like us because that's just human nature. Then we have to be really intentional about reaching outside of people who are not like us to be able to give them these tips so that they can also excel.

Rachel Humphrey:

And I think it's important not just for you to share that wisdom, but for people to see you as well as a leader. I have two daughters and they say it all the time. If I can see it, I can be it. And if people can see you in a leadership role as a woman, as someone who would not traditionally have been in. C suites who would not traditionally have been a general counsel, then that opens up that opportunity for others to follow suit as well. So important and incredibly impactful with still a long way to go in making that impact for sure. You've talked a lot tonight, or this afternoon about. different programs that you've been to. You've talked about different development opportunities that you've had. Continuous growth is so important for each of us being self aware, as you mentioned, knowing your strengths, knowing your weaknesses. If you know your weaknesses, you can help build them and overcome them. Where do you turn for resources? I know you're very involved currently with H. L. A. And with other associations in the legal space. But where do you turn for growth? And how do you really identify what those opportunities are

that

Ama Romaine:

are out there? So I think at this stage of my career for a long time for many years, I did tap into and sometimes it's luck, right? You go to these different conferences. I don't go to tons of conferences, but occasionally, you may go to a conference and we're that's more focused on development leadership which that's generally where I prefer to index. And I have found those to be very influential and helpful. I also think there are a lot of really good leadership development programs out there, including Castile the new HLA project which is not Castile is not new, but it's. The foundation. And, a lot of the universities have leadership development programs. I really Firmly believe that every mid level manager, everyone who wants to be a leader thinks their leader, is a leader should at some point participate in the leadership development class. Because I think that it gives you a different perspective on leadership as opposed to just being a manager. And the last piece of the equation, and this is where I am, what I use more now what I've turned to As an executive is coaching. I actually think professional coaches are. A gift, they are, it is just so helpful. My husband's actually a pretty good coach also because he, I bounce a lot off of him and he helps me to reframe things. I think just because he's a man, he sometimes sees some of my experiences and can help me to think about it slightly differently. But my coaches, I just find that they can help me. To reframe when I'm having, reframe experiences and they can, it can be empowering because sometimes we beat ourselves up in ways that we shouldn't and don't need to and they can help you to think again, think differently about about an experience in a way that could be very empowering. And I think that is just so helpful for professionals as we are navigating workplaces because. Some of these experiences that you have in the workplace, you can't really talk about at work, but you really, if you have someone who can really. Partner with you and be a thought partner and helping you to process. Challenging moments. I think it can go a long way to helping center you and really help you to, get to the next level. Or if you're at the level that you want to be at to thrive where you are.

Rachel Humphrey:

I love executive coaching as well, because the support system, they have no problem calling you out. I don't agree with you. I think that's so important. You mentioned your daughter earlier. I'm curious to know

Ama Romaine:

how

Rachel Humphrey:

successful do you think you've been at finding some harmony between a very demanding Career and having a life outside of that.

Ama Romaine:

I'm going to define it as success. I think it's hard, lately I've been using this frame, this phrase, I just, I'm riding the waves. Because I, because I love the ocean, but it's also because that's life, right? It's neither. Good nor bad. It's sometimes or sometimes you're really riding the wave. Sometimes you feel like you're drowning. But the reality is and I'm really happy you asked this question because I feel like I don't talk about this enough. I've had kids for my entire career. My daughter was Born when I was a first year associate. And she's not 21. 17. And there were moments where that were incredibly challenging. There were moments where I felt like I had to, I like the framework of not being on or off, but putting your, it's like driving a car, right? Sometimes you're accelerating and sometimes you're taking your foot off the gas. Sometimes you're hitting the brake. And I think that is really what it's all about. The journey has been right. Some days were easier than others. But I think it's really important for us to talk about how we integrate work with life. And, my husband, my mom, they're an important part of my network. But, there were times where my husband stepped out of work in order to make it possible for me to be able to continue doing what I was doing, particularly when I had roles that required me to travel a lot. You really, Okay. Cannot do that and raise kids. Be present for your kids. And so we've taken turns on that journey and right now it's my turn. But I think that's an also an important thing to share because a lot of times people just don't talk about that, but really figuring out what you need in the moment in order to make sure that everyone's needs are met. Is really important.

Rachel Humphrey:

And I think to my daughters are 17 and 21 as well that it changes through every course of their lives because their needs are very different. Obviously, as toddlers, they are not independent as a 17 year old. She comes and goes and it doesn't quite require maybe as much day to day attention, but attention in different ways or wanting to spend time. So I think that trying to Be adaptable as well and maybe a little less hard on ourselves along the way. But I love the advice. I think that's fantastic. I knew we would run out of time and I still have a million things I want to cover because you have so many incredible pieces of wisdom, but keeping in mind the motto of DEI advisors to empower personal success, we've covered a lot of great topics today, but what is one thing maybe that. You haven't shared so far, whether it's advice to your younger self or maybe some entirely different category that you would want to share with our viewers who are looking to take that next step in their careers as well.

Ama Romaine:

I would like to leave people with the concept of grace. I'm not sure that's really consistent with With the motto of the advisors, but look, I just think we are so hard on ourselves and we are really good at showing grace to other people frequently, right? When someone makes a mistake, we can help people to overcome the mistakes and make them feel a little bit better. But on ourselves, but we beat up on ourselves a lot. And I think. The more that we can show ourselves some grace so that we can rebound faster so that we can keep going on our journey. I think that will serve. It serves us well, because the truth is, we're gonna make mistakes. The truth is, there are gonna be hard days. Sometimes we're gonna fail. Sometimes we're just gonna feel like we're failing. But I think if you can, embrace all of that as a part of the journey and also embrace you are where you're supposed to be. Thank you. When you're there. I think it will work out.

Rachel Humphrey:

That is fantastic. You have been incredibly impactful for me from my career in learning from you along the way. And I know that you will continue to do so and be as impactful as you want to be in this industry. So thank you so much for your leadership for your guidance and for all you're doing to empower the next generation of hospitality leaders.

Ama Romaine:

Thank you. You've also been impactful for me. Thanks.