It's Personal Stories, A Hospitality Podcast

Katherine Lugar, Executive Vice President, Corporate Affairs, Hilton, Interviewed by David Kong

• David Kong

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Katherine shares highlights and lessons from her impressive career journey and comments on her approach to challenges. We discuss tips on networking, taking risks and achieving work life harmony. She offers thoughts on finding mentors and advocates, and overcoming the "Imposter Syndrome". You wouldn't want to miss the advice Hilton CEO Chris Nassetta shared with her when she was CEO at AHLA. 

David Kong:

Greetings. I'm David Kong, the founder and principal of DEI Advisors. We are a nonprofit organization dedicated to self empowerment. I'm delighted to welcome Katherine Lugar, the executive vice president of corporate affairs at Hilton Hotels. Katherine is well known in our industry. As you'll remember, she was the president and CEO of the American Hotel Lodging Association. And most recently she was the CEO of the American. Beverage Association, Katherine serves on quite a few boards, including the U. S. Chamber of Commerce, and she has won numerous awards and accolades. She is much admired and respected in the industry. Welcome, Catherine.

Katherine Lugar:

Thank you, David. And it's such a pleasure to be with you. Also want to congratulate you on launching DEI Advisors and launching this podcast, which I've been really inspired by the leaders that you've had on, so it is. Thank you for having me.

David Kong:

Thank you. You're kind, and I'm delighted to have you on our show as well. Katherine, you had a spectacular career journey and looking back and you share some of the highlights with us and some of the factors that contributed to your success.

Katherine Lugar:

Sure. And it's always, by the way, humbling to be with someone like you, David, and think about the really amazing career that you've had. And frankly, I've been inspired by your leadership from my earliest days of leading AHLA. So I just want to say thank you as a former chairman as a tremendous industry leader and whether you knew it or not, at times a mentor to me. As I really tried to find the right path forward. So just a very heartfelt. Thank you. Okay. So my career, I'll try to do this quickly. So I'm a native of Austin, Texas. But however, I lived around the world when I was growing up predominantly. In eastern Europe and western Europe because of my dad's involvement in foreign relations and international affairs. And and so always understood the power and the importance of connecting with other cultures, right? During those very formative years of my life. For some crazy reason, I developed a love of politics young in my life, inspired by a neighbor and brought to life really by my own parents. And, went on to college, studied political science and thought I'd go to law school, but actually took a very different job to try to push myself and make sure that's really what I loved. I went to medical surgical supplies as crazy as that sounds, and I made it for about 18 months because I was. always talking about health care reform and policy and frankly not selling my products. And I remember that moment when I called my parents at the ripe age of 23 and said, mom and dad, I'm going to quit my job. I know it pays me well, but I'm going to quit my job. I'm going to move, get a U Haul truck and I'm going to drive up to Washington DC and try to get this political thing out of my system. And David, it's been almost 30 years and I still am not sure I have it out of my system. And so those 30 years really spanned, what I consider to be so many different blessings that I've had a career working on Capitol Hill then moving into the private sector, working alongside really phenomenal leaders in the retail industry for about 12 years. Where I led advocacy and public affairs, some very high profile fights around gosh battling the banks over regulating swipe fees getting Amazon and others to pay sales tax to level the playing field, labor relations high stakes, free trade agreements, and many more. And from there, had the opportunity to go over and lead HLA as their CEO. And you might recall that for all of the incredible leaders. When I inherited the organization, it was a little bit of a fixer upper, right there. It was time to really bring the industry together to align the owners and the management companies and the brands to get on offense and driving the narrative. And to generally around policy issues, speak with one voice and you played such an important role in getting us to where we were. And it was the honor of a lifetime. It was just great fun. I also then from there had the opportunity to move over to working in the CPG industry for the nonalcoholic beverage companies. And I'm really glad as I was telling you a little bit earlier that I did that it was a big companies like Coca Cola and Pepsi and cured Dr Pepper who were at the tip of the spear. On important fights around plastic in the environment, sugar in people's diets, really worked alongside some tremendous leaders to get on offense. Once again, there with all that said, Chris called 1 day and and I realized just like I haven't gotten politics out of my system. Hadn't gotten the hospitality industry out of my system and just saw an incredible opportunity. To come back to in a business of people that serve people in a business that connects cultures at a time that our world is siloed and polarized. And I believe travel is a great connector and frankly, to come back into an industry that supports people in their careers, gives them, gets them on the ladder of opportunity. It was an incredible opportunity and I'm super excited to be back.

David Kong:

That's such a wonderful story. from a young age, being exposed to different cultures and learning to value diversity and how you can call this different ways of thinking about things to your present role. It's just such a spectacular journey. And Catherine, let me also thank you for the wonderful job you did at the American Hotel Lodging Association. You really transformed that organization and it was so effective in engaging all the stakeholders, whether they be owners or operators or brands, you were just magnificent and how you engage everybody and you breathe a new life into that organization. Kudos to you. And I have always been grateful for all that you've done to help this industry.

Katherine Lugar:

Thank you. And I'll just say simply, and I know those jobs are never done by one person, right? I was always blessed with an incredible team, and I was blessed to be surrounded by amazing leaders who were bought in. And it was the combination of all of that at the right time.

David Kong:

You're absolutely right. It's always a team effort. But you were the one who assembled the team. So kudos to you again. Let's talk about the mentors and advocates. They're so important to one's career. Have you benefited from such relationships? And if so, can you share some stories?

Katherine Lugar:

Absolutely. David, mentors have been not just important. I'd say they've been critical in my career. From my earliest days and coming to Washington, this is a town of relationships, right? And in, whether those individuals knew they were my mentors or not, at a really young age, I began to seek people out, frankly, people that were different generations, people that look different than me, and maybe people even that thought different than me. And they were really pivotal, but I would tell you they continue to be pivotal anytime I am struggling with a decision. Whether it is something I'm trying to crack the code on at work or whether it's something in life right around trying to get the right balance or whether or not a career move is the right thing or the right time. Those people have been anchors in, in every one of those decisions. I'd also say though, that as important it is to have mentors. I think it's equally important to mentor, particularly as we all move through our career journey. I think about how so many of those people really were instrumental to my success. And and today I'm very intentional and seeking out those mentees and making sure that we're doing our part and I'm doing my part to give back and to make time to support those who are starting out. And frankly, A lot of times, David, I learn as much from them as I'm sure they learn from me, and having that two way partnership really is so important.

David Kong:

It's so true, and I'm so heartened to hear you talk about paying back and helping other people succeed and actively looking for mentees that you can help realize their career aspiration. And you're right, also, that as mentors, we often benefit from mentees, because they... Teach us things. And Chip Conley actually, in his interview, talked about that during his time at Airbnb, where he was brought in as a mentor to the founder and CEOs. But he actually benefited from that relationship. He learned so much from them. That's

Katherine Lugar:

right. I tell people make the time, right? Because not only is it important to give back, you'll be surprised at how much you learn. From that relationship. It's always a two way relationship.

David Kong:

Yeah, absolutely right. Let's talk about the challenges that we both face in our careers. No doubt you've had your fish. Tell me how you generally approach challenges.

Katherine Lugar:

Yeah, listen, I certainly have had my fair share of them, whether I wanted them or not. Although There's some dysfunctional part of myself that I've always been drawn to hard, right? When I hear of a challenge or I have a moment in my career where I thought about either asking for more or moving into a new role, it's usually because I see a challenge and for whatever reason, that's always excited me. So listen, some of this is not the sexiest of advice. I'd say that, it's always super important to just prepare. Right to work really hard to make sure that you are talking to lots of different people with different perspectives. Don't just surround yourself with people that agree with you surround yourself with people that challenge you because often what they're challenging you on. There's an important nugget in there, right? To really Absorb and think through it's really hard to do this, particularly in any of these fast paced jobs that you've been in or I've been in. You have to find the time to think, carve out the time to think, get off. As I say, the trend, the hamster wheel sometimes and find the time to just let yourself think. And then the final piece, and this is the hardest to explain. Frankly, it's been one of the most important things in my career. And that is, you're going to take in a lot of information from a lot of different stakeholders. Your wheels are going to be churning. A lot of people are often in your ear, right? About what they think the right thing to do is. You got to trust your own gut. You've got to listen to your intuition. And I'd say where I've made the biggest mistakes in my life and in my career, where we're probably those moments I didn't listen to my own, what my own gut was telling me to do. Instead, I listen to other people too much. And so don't underestimate the power of your own intuition. And all of this,

David Kong:

it's interesting that you mentioned that because I've heard that from other industry leaders that we have interviewed as well. They say to trust your own gut instinct. And that is so true because we didn't get to where we are today without having gone through lots of experiences, lots of ups and downs and Lessons that we've learned along the way and our intuition is invaluable.

Katherine Lugar:

And it's amazing. Yeah. Sometimes I'll sit in a room and everyone's nodding their head and they're agreeing that, this is the right path to go on. And if I can feel that, that thing in my gut, that's gnawing at me saying, I'm not convinced this feels right. It's just so important to speak up.

David Kong:

Absolutely and it is important to collect diverse opinions on things. And at the end of the day, we still have to trust our own instinct. That's a very valuable lesson that you're sharing. Let's also talk about setbacks and disappointments. We've all had them. Our careers are never a straight rollout. It's ineffable that we're going to face some disappointments along the way. How do you find the strength and resilience to overcome these setbacks?

Katherine Lugar:

Yeah a couple of things. And once again, just like I've had my fair share of hard, I've had my fair share of setbacks to and frankly, that makes us better and richer, I think, and how we tackle today are those setbacks that we've had yesterday. So listen, there are a few things I'll say at the outset. Number one. And by the way, this has been proven, and I find it fascinating. I also find that what I'm about to say to be very true of myself, and that is to the women. That are listening. We have we disproportionately here than that. The criticism it has been proven the way that our brains are designed. So you can tell me 9 things that I've done well. And if I hear the 1 thing I need to work on. I'll still wake up in the night. I think about that one thing, right? Versus patting myself on the back for the other nine. And it's something I really have to work hard at. It's important to listen to that, but then you got it. You got to move on number two. I when I'm about to say it's just so basic, but it's someone was really drilling me with questions on this the other day. And I finally came back to this point. on setbacks and how you get up the next morning after you've made a mistake, right? Or you've had a defeat. And I give my parents a lot of credit. I think about their advice. I think about my mom's advice to me as a young girl after having a bad day, whether it was something that I did or something that was done to me. And she'd say, Catherine, get a good night's sleep. Tomorrow is a new day. And you're going to wake up and you will always feel better in the morning. And I remember that to this day, right? In those moments I've had setbacks, it's like, all right, reset. Let's get a good night's sleep. Let me catch my breath. Let me wake up tomorrow. Oh, I know I'm going to feel better. I know I'm going to be clear headed. And figure out how to tackle that challenge. Now, with all that said, just a quick story. And this might even resonate with you a little bit. One of those moments when I had my greatest setback, right? I definitely, my top three in my life was when I was a new CEO at HLA, David, I had come off of a career that was hard charging and I'd had a lot of wins and big high stakes, public affairs and advocacy fights. And I was on top of the world. And I came to HLA. And it needed a lot of work, and it was really humbling. I'd never been a CEO before. I was working really fast to try to align the industry and to bring in new stakeholders and to surround myself with the right talent, right? All of those things changed my governance, changed our board. And as a result, I had a lot of people in my ear. I had a lot of different stakeholders pulling at me, telling me which way I needed to go. And frankly, I was moving really fast. I was probably moving too fast. And I'll never forget and I was making mistakes. I'm going to be really honest. I made a number of mistakes in that first year and I will never forget a phone call. I got from one of the industry leaders and he said, why don't you come over to my office and let's have lunch. And I thought, oh, and he had me over and he asked me the quintessential. How's it going? How do you think it's going? And I rambled for a while, David, about all the things I thought I was doing, even though in my gut, again, I knew I'd had a few setbacks. And so this person said to me, Catherine, I'm going to. Treat you like I do the people that report into me and I want you to remember as I tell you this, that feedback is a gift. Feedback is a gift. And then he went on to tell me a bunch of things. I still hold near and dear to me today. Number one, do fewer things better, right? Bigger and better. Get sharp focus. Stop trying to do 15 different things for 15 different stakeholders that do fewer things better and have impact. Number two, you have a lot of people pulling at you. Get a good process in place. to manage that, right? Again, it may not be the sexiest thing. Any of us talk about, but having a good process to manage a lot of different expectations really can be a game changer. He also said to me, it's really important to get some early wins and get out there and communicate them, right? Tell your own story. Get on offense. Don't assume people know it. And then the final thing he said is, we want you to move quickly. We love that you're moving quickly. We see the passion in you. But you know what? Slow down. Sometimes make sure you're bringing all of us along with you. Make sure you're bringing my team along with you. And I put that in my own words today. And I tell people it's good to be one step ahead of your board and the stakeholders you're working with, but you don't want to be two steps ahead. That's where you lose people. That's where you're on the dock and you jump in the boat. You think everyone's jumping in the boat with you and you pull away. And you realize you're the only one in the boat and they're still back on the dock. And that does not, that's not very effective. And so I take those three or four things. I think about those hard moments at HLA where I made some mistakes and I think about the advice I was given and that feedback I was given. And by the way, that industry leader. While I was surrounded by people's sage advice, that one happened to be Chris Nassetta, who I now have that blessing of working for. But that advice that so many of you gave me in those moments was just critical and I hold it near and dear today. And frankly, I'd say it's a reason, once I listened to that it was amazing how quickly we all took off and made real progress.

David Kong:

That's really sage advice and Chris was very wise and offering those observations to you. And I've actually believed in doing less is more. I totally subscribe to that because you simply don't have the bandwidth to take on everything. And I don't have the focus either to ensure.

Katherine Lugar:

Yeah, go for impact.

David Kong:

And having a structure in place to consider all the diversity, like it's also very important. It's very good advice. I really appreciate your sharing that with us. Thank you. And you are such a great networker. You are so well liked the industry. You have an extensive network. Can you share some tips on networking?

Katherine Lugar:

Yeah, it's a great question. I'd say, first of all, in the hospitality industry, I think I'm surrounded by great net workers because we are generally people who love people right in a business of people serving people. So listen, this town of Washington D. C. where I have really built my career is a town that is driven by relationships. Core to the D. N. A. Of being effective here has been to have effective relationships right to have a strong network. And I've been again, whether I sought it out intentionally. In my earliest days or not, I've developed a network that really spans a whole group of very diverse kinds of leaders, thinkers, political beliefs, backgrounds. And that very deep and rich and diverse network has been Once again, absolutely critical to my own success. I think there's a couple of things that become really important. You have to be intentional seek people out who you think you're going to learn from, right? Add them into your network, be authentic, particularly don't try and tell people what they want to hear, be authentic, listen to them, right? We're given two of these for one reason, listen to them, take away, learn. But also be authentic back in what you believe and why you believe it. I say follow through on the things you say you're going to do. And always remain curious. It's the Ted Lasso thing. Be curious. Someone actually gave me a better one the other day as we were talking about just the intense political polarization right now. And for someone like me who had a father in law who served in the United States Senate for 36 years and who has been inspired by politics from my earliest times, nothing is more upsetting to me than the polarization that we find ourselves in. And they said, I said, yeah, I think the key to all of it is just being curious. They said, be curious, not furious. And I thought that's great because when you're curious. You listen to other people, you get into their shoes, you find landing spots. It teaches you to be empathetic, right? All of those things that sometimes are missing. And I don't, it doesn't matter whether you are. In a political situation, whether you're in a business situation, whether you're in leading a service organization, whether you're in your own personal life, finding getting in someone else's shoes, right? Being curious about why they think what they think and finding that landing spot is magical, right? It is, I say, some of the secret sauce to being really effective. And so that's, in establishing my network. And A lot of it really comes from being curious about people and what they think and why.

David Kong:

Wow. What wonderful advice you're sharing. I've heard being curious as one of the important leadership traits as espoused by many of the industry leaders within the field. But no one has to use that in that context. Be curious about why people feel a certain way. I'm a big fan of the seven habits of highly effective people. And one of the habits is seek first to understand. And it's so true. We have such polarization in our country. If we can just try to understand. One another would be far better off. So thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that.

Katherine Lugar:

Absolutely. I did. I might even say, and my father in law used to often say that the demise in Congress came from when senators stopped going to each other states and they would bring their families in the, a few decades ago, they'd go visit a neighboring state. They bring their family. They'd understand what made it. Thank you. That state tick, and then it didn't matter whether you were Republican or Democrat, you had a relationship. You understood what they were trying to solve for. You understood the pressures they were under and you were able to find a middle ground. Yeah. That stopped. And we've seen the, the demise that probably has followed from that.

David Kong:

I wish we can go back to that. You're so right. If you can bring your family to a neighboring state and build that relationship.

Katherine Lugar:

Or in travel, right? In a neighboring country and learn another culture.

David Kong:

Oh, neighboring country. We wouldn't have the bakery that we have today. Thanks so much for sharing that. Now, Catherine, you are such a wonderful communicator. Everyone respects you and the way that you speak and how persuasive you are. Can you share some tips on how one can become more engaging as a speaker and more persuasive as an influencer?

Katherine Lugar:

I'm talking to one of the best. So I feel like I'd love to be interviewing you on this question, David. But listen, a couple of things that I use and, we'll see how effective they are. But but I try to hold them near and dear when I'm whether I'm speaking to an audience of 1 or 10, 000. It's your number 1 speak to the why. Before you get to the what when you make that case of why and you get the heads nodding, then you're more likely to convince them on the what, or then you quibble over the what a little bit, but you find a landing spot, but first you've got to speak to that. Why? And try to inspire the why you're number two and people fall down on this one all the time. It is. You have to get into your audience's shoes. Yes. What is it you want them to take away? What's going to be their vantage point? If there's an elephant in the room, speak to it up front. Don't wait for them to ask that question, but be very intentional about who you're speaking to and what you think they. Need to hear what they are trying to solve for, right? Because again, it's never, as we all know, it's never a one sided conversation. I think the third thing, and it's super important is storytell. Try to invoke some ways that people can relate, right? And fourth, and I touched on this before, be authentic. People can smell bullshit. I need to say it. They can smell it. They know it when they see it. Tell the truth. Be authentic when you're speaking. And and, trust sort of your own voice and how you deliver messages. That's

David Kong:

such wonderful advice. I absolutely love it. Of all four points that you raised were just fantastic, especially like the first one, which is start with why? Because to me, why is the belts emotional connection? It inspires. It's the belts and suspenders. Yeah. It's so important to speak to that. That's really great. Advice. Now you've taken a lot of risk, especially when during your time at the HLA, when you first came on, you push the envelope, you were transforming the organization. You're talking a lot of risk because some people were not happy. They wanted the status quo. It's hard to do that. So what are some of the tips that you can offer on risk taking?

Katherine Lugar:

Yeah, it's I know others have talked about this on this podcast and, I'll lend my voice. It is, taking risks are critical. That is how you get ahead. It can also be really uncomfortable. I already invoked Ted Lasso, Ted. I don't know if you, David, have ever watched Ted Lasso. All right. Thumbs up. So one of my favorite quotes is when he said, doing something hard is a little bit like riding a horse. If it doesn't feel uncomfortable, you're probably not doing it right. And that is taking risks feel uncomfortable, but they're absolutely imperative. And so how do you do it? How do you get comfortable with being uncomfortable? I say a couple of things are critical and I, it's, spirit of maybe sounding like a broken record. It's number one. You got to do your homework. You got to prepare, right? You've got to make sure to listen to different perspectives and pull that feedback together. You've got to make sure that in taking risks that you know what your own secret sauce is. I know this is going to sound funny but one of mine is finding that landing spot. And so you have to push yourself. You got to know what your secret thing is. You bring to the equation, right? That's going to give you that superpower. And then. You just have to trust your gut at the end, if it feels right, if you've done your homework, if you can see the vision, the art of the possible then you got to go and there are moments again, where I've had those, they have been instrumental in the victories that have been achieved. And what's always been core to it, and this is probably the most important thing to say at the end is surround yourself with good people. It's the old adage. There's no I in team. I know that's super cheesy. I believe it to my core and I've always been blessed by having great people around me, right? Or being intentional in the people I've put around me, making sure they know things I don't. And have people around you that push you and push your own thinking. That's really, it's critically important, particularly when you're doing something hard or taking a risk.

David Kong:

So true. Thank you for sharing that advice. Yeah. Let's move on and talk about the imposter syndrome because some of us are uncomfortable being at a table with no diversity and we feel like we are being imposters at that setting. How have you ever felt the imposter syndrome? And if so, how do you overcome that? What's something constructive that we can do?

Katherine Lugar:

Yeah. David, embarrassing to admit. Sometimes I still feel it, right? I've gotten a lot better at being comfortable with it. But I felt it and have felt it over and over in my career. And, I talked to my daughters a lot about this who now are 19 and 17, also my son, but especially my daughters. And number one, I think it's it is, Pushing yourself, getting comfortable with being uncomfortable. I already said that, but you gotta push yourself. Do a lot of listening, right? Find the right place and time to use your voice. You're going to make some mistakes. You're going to say some stupid things, right? Learn from that. Take it to heart. Think about what you do differently, right? Until you find what those tools are that work for you at that table, but never give up, right? Continue to lean in, continue to push yourself because when you have one of those magical moments where you brought your voice to that table and it was a game changer, you never forget it. You never forget it. And so you learn from that and you learn from what works. I'm in a town where a lot of people love to talk right here in Washington, D. C. Are elected leaders and others. They talk at each other all day long. But don't be afraid sometimes at one of those tables to sit back and listen and to find the right time to inject your voice and again be driven by your intuition and all of it. So

David Kong:

true and such great advice. Thanks for sharing that. I see that we're coming to the end of our hour. Time. So I like to ask you one last question. And because the I advises is a nonprofit organization dedicated to self empowerment. This last question is on self empowerment. What's your advice?

Katherine Lugar:

Yeah, it's self empowerment. We talked a lot today about taking risks about doing things that are uncomfortable about surrounding yourself with good people. I think it's really important, particularly for women, right? To push yourself to do all those things. But also to set some boundaries, we find women all the time drop out of the workforce. And one of the main reasons, but that's really all of your audiences is because when we're working so hard, when we want to go to work and make a difference, right? And move the needle. If you don't protect the things that are your passions outside of work. You're going to be deeply unsatisfied. I know what mine are. They're my family. I'm blessed with three children and a wonderful marriage. They're my family back in Texas. They're my desire to give back around pediatric cancer and to homeless and disadvantaged youth, getting them back on the ladder of opportunity. I protect my health. I protect those things fiercely. I draw boundaries, right? I'll tell you though, and this is the thing a lot of people don't say when they tell you to set boundaries, I work my tail off like I set a boundary to go get to one of my kids volleyball games. I'm probably going to be back on my laptop until late at night, right? Banging out, getting the work done, but I'm fulfilled. There are a lot of days that I feel like I hold life together with duct tape and rubber bands, right? It is not pretty. But life is full of blessings. And so set some boundaries. Please. to lean in and to embrace the things that are important to you outside of work. You will be better at your job. You will be happier, right? And you'll ultimately be more successful and more fulfilled. And I think when people take that advice to heart, they really began to see that path to just great happiness.

David Kong:

I absolutely love that. It's such one

Katherine Lugar:

of what you do the same thing, David, right? You're so passionate about your family and the things you care deeply about. They

David Kong:

are important and you're so right about setting boundaries, but at the same time, work your tail off. Yeah, work your tail

Katherine Lugar:

off. Yeah, nothing. What's the old prepare to fail to prepare? There's a lot of wisdom in that.

David Kong:

Oh, Catherine, I can talk to you the whole day. I regret that we don't have enough time here on this show, but thank you so much for taking the time to be on our show and sharing your wisdom. So many... Nuggets of wonderful advice that you've dispensed. And we really appreciate

Katherine Lugar:

it. David, someone needs to interview you for this show at some point, if they haven't already, because you have one of the most inspiring stories I know. And one that I think has always inspired me and what this industry is all about. And so thank you.

David Kong:

You're kind. Thank you, Catherine. It's great to have you on our show. Thank you for having me. Yeah. And so our audience, if you enjoyed the show. I hope you can join us on our website, DEIAdvisors. org. We have many other interviews of this nature, and we know that you will enjoy them as well. Thanks again, Catherine. Thank you. Great to have

Katherine Lugar:

you. Take care. Great to see you. Bye bye.