It's Personal Stories, A Hospitality Podcast

Michelle Woodley, President, Preferred Travel interviewed by Dorothy Dowling

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Michelle Woodley’s career journey to President of Preferred Travel, has been guided by her passion for hospitality and believing in being true to herself and her beliefs.  Her experience as a trainer who travelled the world in her early career help cement her belief in being inclusive and being aware of the unique requirements of what motivates individuals and the impact each unique culture has on individuals and how business is conducted.

Dorothy Dowling:

Greetings. I am Dorothy Dowling, a principal of D e I advisors, we are a nonprofit organization dedicated to personal empowerment, and I am delighted today to welcome Michelle Woodley, president of Preferred Travel Group to our d e I show. Michelle, welcome to our show. I am so honored to have you with us today.

Michelle Woodley:

Thank you Dorothy. Thanks for inviting me and to all the d e i advisors for the work that you're doing in the industry to encourage and promote personal growth and empowerment, I think is fantastic and I'm happy to be here. Thank

Dorothy Dowling:

you, Michelle. So I wonder if we can get right to it, Michelle, because you are one of very few women who are the president of a global hotel company, and if I might add someone who has been a president of a hotel company for quite some time, so I'm wondering if you would mind sharing your career journey with us, the learnings you've had in terms of advancing your career to really secure that top leadership position at preferred.

Michelle Woodley:

Sure. I think I always knew I wanted to go into hospitality. I come from a Greek family. Both grandparents came over from Greece to the us so hospitality I think has just always been in my blood. My maternal grandfather was a bellman then room service, Blackstone Hotel here in Chicago. And my paternal grandfather was a grocer. And then my grandparents on my. Mother's side also owned a candy shop I think some of those things were just inherent and are just a part of you. Growing up, no one ever left our house hungry, so the idea of hospitality and welcoming others has always just been a part of my life, which then led me to going to school at Cornell. I went to Cornell's in the hotel school. I actually thought I wanted to go into food and beverage. Growing up I cooked and I catered everything. I even catered my brother's senior proma high school. So f and b was the way I was going. And then I, funny story, I took my food, my first food chemistry class, and I said food chemistry. I just I just wanted to be in the kitchen cooking. So let's say I left food and beverage and I actually went into finance and information systems, which led me to my kind of post graduating Jobs. I did a really short stint in a training program at Hilton, but that really wasn't for me. It was a little too rigid and didn't allow me to spread my wings enough. Through a contact through somebody I'd interned for, I actually was approached by Swiss Hotel Chicago to be their systems person. And I really did not know much about systems in the real world. But I was really lucky to take that job and get into hotels and really have to understand how things worked front of house and back of house. Cause I had to be the person who helped people with systems. And through my time with Swiss Hotel, I grew into a corporate position, which was around central reservations and distribution, which it was at a time when all of that was brand new. And as a young single person, I got to travel the globe. Did doing a ton of training, which was an incredible influence on me and my life because it really taught me the value of being global and understanding the perspectives of others and that not everybody was alike. And so that was a huge learning experience when I got into the corporate world of understanding what it meant to work for a global company. Both as someone trying to get things accomplished, but also dealing with associates around the globe and things of that nature. Then in around 2000 when Swiss Air Wa the owning company at the time was selling off some of its assets as part of the management team, the executive team of the Swiss hotel company, and we decided that we wanted to sell ourselves versus being sold off and Swiss Air was more than happy to. To let us do that. I worked with the bankers on the offering memorandum and actually going through that sales process. We eventually sold to Raffles where I stayed for, through a transition for a couple years. And during that time for me, it was about getting outta my comfort zone. Because I'd been with Swiss Hotel for 10 years at the time, had helped build a culture, and now I had to learn how to integrate with a different culture. So getting outta my comfort zone from that perspective and also being transparent about myself and my opinions, and understanding that it was gonna do me no good to pretend I was somebody who I wasn't, and that I really just had to be honest and earnest in everything that I was doing, and that definitely proved to be the best policy I could have. Adopted at that time. And then I joined Preferred in 2002. I'd always admired the company for what it did for independent hotels, and I understood that, hey, if I had a, if I was a general manager of a hotel, I would want the services and the reach and the services that were being provided by Preferred. So I joined as the head of marketing back in 2002. Hub Roth Family acquired the company in 2003. Went through a rebranding headed up global marketing strategy. Leaned a lot on my previous experience in that global piece of it. But also learned a lot about operating in an environment of independent hoteliers and independent providers who all have their own perspective and understood how to. How to deal with that and how to be informed about making decisions. And then the company just continued to grow and evolve and I had a lot of opportunities to oversee different periods different departments. And through all of it, like I never said no. It was, Hey, can you oversee this for five months? Sure. Can you oversee this for a month? Sure. So I think I really just learned to be adaptive and to never say no to an opportunity, which is led me to where I was, where I am today. And along the way I got married, I had two kids still, always hosting a party, whether it's a birthday, a graduation welcome to the neighborhood for whoever might be, or just enjoying bringing people together, which brings it all back to hospitality. And this never ending desire to wanna make sure people are feel welcomed and warm wherever they might be. And my own personal desire to keep learning.

Dorothy Dowling:

That's an amazing career story, Michelle and I do think starting in the IT distribution space, I mean you were a trailblazers before people were talking about women as trailblazers. So now I truly understand how you're able to continue to power your career and become the senior executive that you are leading. Leading the preferred travel group, and I must say they're very fortunate to have someone that has the breadth and depth of your knowledge as well as someone who has worked in the category, the luxury category, so that you truly understand that owner mindset in such a powerful way. So congratulations and thanks for sharing all of that. With us, I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about whether you had career champions and if you did, if any of them were really important to powering your career, and if there's any stories that you would be open to sharing with us.

Michelle Woodley:

Yeah, sure. I have one very important mentor in my life and she was somebody who I met actually when I went for that job interview at Swiss Hotel to be the systems girl and had no idea what it was about. I distinctly remember meeting Maryanne, her name's Maryanne Russell. She was the front office manager at the time. And to this day, I can tell you exactly what she was wearing. She was wearing a royal blue suit. Suit with a great printed blouse. And she was being in, I was being introduced to her by the controller who was hiring me. And she had a great firm handshake. And all I remember thinking was, I wanna be like her one day. And I think it was the confidence that she had and the smile on her face and long story short on this is that as a systems person, I had to work really closely with the front office manager. And about eight or nine months into it she and I went away to training systems training. She was going for the front office, I was going for the back office piece. So we spent two weeks together and really got to know and understand each other. And about three months after that, so a year in the, into the job she was gonna be promoted to the rooms division manager. And she asked me to be the front office manager. And I remember saying, Maryanne I I'm a systems girl and this was a 630 room downtown Chicago hotel, and she said and this is the first time I heard it, and that's something I live by today. She said, I. I can train you on how to be a front office manager, but you have the talent to get it done. And so this whole idea of hire for talent and train for skill was a big lesson that she taught me was you can teach anybody how to do a schedule and how to check people in and out, but there's certain things that are innate and individuals. And she certainly saw that in me and believed in me. So we actually had to go up to the general manager's office and she wanted to let him know that I was gonna do this. And he said, This is back in the early nineties. You're crazy. She's a young girl outta high school, outta college, rather. How you know this can be, and Marianne said, I tell you what, we're gonna do it for 90 days and if it doesn't work out, she said, Michelle will go back to systems and I will go back to the front office. But we, fortunately we never had to be back in then. Throughout my career, Marianne has been a great Mentor to me. We worked together for another three or four years and then she moved on and had a great career as a executive with Hilton as a general manager and regional GM and things like that. But I've also had some great champions along the way. Two of them were with my days at Swiss Hotel, and this was during the era of the growing electronic distribution and central reservation systems and the need for this. And two of the CEOs at the time were gentlemen who grew up as hoteliers and food and beverage and in service in that end of the business and did not really understand all the technology. And they were big champions of mine because they had confidence in me to be the one to figure it out and to learn it all. And they also. Knew that it was an area they didn't know and didn't feel that they could get to the expertise. But because of that, they entrusted in me in being the one to learn it and to bring the company forward in both central reservations and distribution. Eventually the internet in revenue management and Always had my name at the table, if you will, when these kinds of things were being discussed, which then of course just broadened into other bigger discussions. Pierre Martine and Andreas Meyerhold were huge champions. And then of course when the U Roth family bought preferred hotel group and preferred hotels and resorts. They had an immense amount of confidence and allowed me to stretch very broadly and to help them through some areas that they didn't have experience in, and to share with me a lot of the experiences they, that they have. And right now Lindsay, who's our c e o Lindsay brought, who's our c e preferred travel group. And it really, I'd say our entire team we're. Big champions of each other. And I've learned a lot about continued empathy and really to look at the long game on things and not to always look at things too short term because there's usually a longer game and a longer benefit to be had.

Dorothy Dowling:

Thank you Michelle. You shared some really beautiful stories. I think it's very impressive. So early in your career you had a female champion who was able to really give you that confidence to take. The kind of risk that you did also to give you some comfort that there would be an opportunity for you to go back if it didn't work out. But those are really incredible stories of individuals that valued you for not only your. Subject matter expertise, but just your overall mindset, which I think is a tribute to you, but it's also a tribute to the organizations that you chose to work with, that they truly valued all of those elements of their talent pool. Thank you. I'm loving hearing all of these stories. I'm wondering if I could go a little bit further because you work in a very unique role in terms of working with owners that have. Very significant investments in their assets and. In the luxury market in particular, there is a lot of complexity to the business operation, so I would like to see if there's anything that you can share with the audience in terms of being a senior executive, being able to work with very seasoned owners that have very high expectations in terms of. How they go to market, how they respond to their customers, the partners that they work with. In terms of your level of support is there any guidance in terms of your growth and how you have worked with all of these important stakeholders?

Michelle Woodley:

I. Yeah, sure Dorothy. So there, there's n d a very wide audience of stakeholders in our business internally and externally and across the globe. Our own associate base is 300 people in 22 countries. Within preferred travel group. We have six business units. Preferred hotels and resorts being the largest. But we also have Historic Hotels of America and historic hotels worldwide and are beyond Green hotel brand and a consulting division. But within the hotel portfolio it's it's over a thousand hotels each unique in their ownership structure and management as well as the needs and what they're looking to us for and for our brands to fulfill. And that means we have relationships with institutional. Investors all the way to family owned and operate. And that's a huge gap to to have to cross and to understand what all those individual needs are. But I will say that regardless of that, what I've really learned is that preparation when talking to any of them is incredibly important in any client and understanding the desired outcomes of the relationship. Is imperative. So for all of these audiences, it requires really active listening and the ability to empathize to truly understand what they're telling you, right? So if you're not able to ar and some aren't even able to articulate it, right? So then you, there, there's this skillset that has to be built. Built of, how can you ask those probing questions in a conversational way? Now for the bigger, more mature and sophisticated management companies, investors, they're very straightforward about what they're looking for. But those who are less can sometimes actually be more challenging because, They don't know how to articulate what they're looking for. And so the ability to ask some probing questions and keep it non-threatening, but rather in a conversational way is super important. And some of that I think happens just through experience and learning how to do that. But it, but for me, it's a continual concerted effort to sit back and ask why. Why is somebody looking for us to provide something again, whether it's in the hotel space or whether it's in the consulting space, and then for us to determine how we can best deliver on it, and then share that so that we manage expectations along the way. That's one of the biggest things that we talk with our development team on as we bring on new hotels, is that we. We've all got to continually manage expectations and let's not overpromise. Let's make sure that anything that we say we can do, we can, and that we'll be able to do in the timeframe and to the degree that people are looking for. And that requires also a lot of collaboration across our team. None of our development. Calls can go out without being informed about what we know about a market and what kind of demand we know that there is and what we believe that we can contribute to a hotel. Yeah, so I'd sum that up with preparation and understanding and the ability to ask those questions and to be able to sit back and reflect on it before going in.

Dorothy Dowling:

And if I might add one other point that I thought was really important that you offered Michelle, which I'm sure comes from some of your background in terms of your marketing, sales and distribution, it's not overpromising. It's really understanding the value creation you can bring to make sure you manage the expectations. Of who you're choosing to support the one question I'd like to go a little bit deeper on, and I know you talked about your teammates and just the variety of different owners and institutional investors and others that you support. But it's also this ability to transcend that from a global mindset. And I know you said early in your career you had the opportunity to travel and support hotels around the world. I've always believed that this global mindset is a really important component of an executive like you, Michelle, because I learned early on that. I often found out when I traveled and worked in other parts of involved that it was about what I didn't know and helping to learn from others because they truly did understand their market and their customers and their associates far better than I probably ever would. But you've led a global company for a long time. You've achieved amazing growth. You do incredible things. As I said earlier, I love following you on LinkedIn and saying all of the brilliant ways that you're providing value to your hotels around the world. Can you talk a little bit about that mindset and how you continue to shape the value creation that you bring to all of your global stakeholders?

Michelle Woodley:

Yeah. As you point out, Dorothy I was so fortunate to have traveled the globe so early in my career. I would literally go around the world, come home and be like, okay, everyone's trained. And then it was like, CEO was like, when's your next trip? So I got to do a lot of that and I trained hoteliers from general managers to front office to reservations especially on the CRS during that time, and really educated them on the technology basics of revenue management. And I found I needed to get beyond, here's the buttons you press, but to the why behind it. I also learned from those experience to appreciate that every country, every region, every hotel, every person is different. And that their motivation for coming to work can also be very different. And how that influenced how and why they work. So for example 30 years ago in Beijing coming to a hotel to work was a place to have a shower, to get clean clothes and to have a warm meal. Something that was very foreign to me at the time. And it is actually still true in some parts of the world today, but for me, taking that time to understand what motivated each individual and why that was really important to them was something that I learned. That's back to your point there of. Understanding things you don't know, and then taking that, and then turning that into why they should want to learn and to grow. And I carry all of that with me today. So I think that as a global leader, it's really important to be mindful of the perspective of others. Whether it's an associate or a hotelier or a client and while business is global and the world moves super quickly, and we we can say that even English is the global language of business and that everyone needs to think globally. We can't ignore tradition and customs. They can't be underestimated at all. Especially in very. Certain parts of the world. I love my annual trips to Japan. It reminds me, it takes me back to where tradition and certain customs have to take place. Now, if you skip over a tradition or a custom, nobody will tell you that you missed it. But it may come up later down the line as to Oh and I wonder why they didn't come to our global conference this year. Because you you miss doing something along the way. Again, the tradition in customs they can't be underestimated and we cannot be self-serving and say, but the world is global. Everybody should be global. That, that's definitely one aspect of it. And then with a third of our workforce being outside the us we need to be very conscious of that as well. And as much as we are a global company, again, being conscious of what's important to individuals is really important. And so to support those relationships with our associates and with our hotel clients we have to keep that perspective in mind. And then as we. As a company, we host global like town halls. Every month Lindsay and I do a town hall and we, finding a time is really hard to do it, and so there's never the perfect time. So a couple times a year we do two sessions. We do one in my evening and one in morning to, to, so that the folks in the Asia Pacific region don't have to be on at 10 or 11 o'clock at night a couple times a year. We host just smaller ones that are more regional We, we have to, as leaders take those things into mind, even though those across the globe are more than happy to come on at 10 or 11 o'clock at night. It gets tiring after a while. So we have to take those things into account and and I think we do a pretty good job of it, but sometimes we forget and we have to be reminded of it. The other comment I wanted to make on this, Dorothy, about being global to means it to me it also means being inclusive across ethnicity, sexual orientation, and across generations. So global really to me means being more inclusive. The geography piece is one piece of it and something that I think people. Have learned over time and can, you can even read about that. But these other areas of inclusivity part of what d e I is about making sure that we are all thinking about this on a daily basis. And from this perspective we try to make sure, we encourage input and feedback across the board to ensure we don't overlook the needs of a certain group, whether it's an associate group or a client group or that we're insensitive to somebody and that we are paying attention to what these needs are. And I've found that to do that as a leader, especially with the internal audience, it's really important to ask questions and incur parti and encourage that participation in smaller groups or even one-to-one, to let everyone know that it's safe to speak up and to have input. And you can oftentimes by reading a room that somebody has an idea, but they just. Their culture might not allow them to speak up or prevents them from thinking they can. And so it's that phone call I after to say, Hey I think you had something to say about the topic. Would you like to share it with me now? And honestly, I even find that from time to time with some of our hoteliers who may be from a smaller town or from a small company and they feel intimidated by the big guys around them. Reading the room and then taking that time, not calling'em out in front of everybody and just being sensitive to what they may thinking or feeling. And then picking up the phone after or having that one-on-one conversation is also really important.

Dorothy Dowling:

I think you have beautifully characterized one of the things that I have found in the literature today where they've changed the word soft skills to human skills, Michelle. And you represent that in such a powerful way in terms of being a leader that brings your humanity first and forward and in such a good listener in terms of all of the individual stakeholders you support. So I think that is an amazing. Way that you go to market from a global mindset is that you bring your humanity forward and your ability to support other human beings in such a respectful way. So thank you for sharing that story. I'd like to pull on that a little bit more because of course, you and I have gotten to know each other through our work through H S M A I, and you give a lot to the H S M A I Foundation, which of course is dedicated to. Talent and upskilling and really trying to understand how we can really bring hospitality back as a destination career and grow talent in terms of their ability to contribute in powerful ways. So I'm just wondering if you can share a little bit about the volunteer commitment, particularly your work with H S M A I and how that has really fueled your personal

Michelle Woodley:

growth. Yeah. And it really has. Dorothy, it's been invaluable experience across the board personally and professionally. As I look back on it giving back has always been a priority for me. Early in my career, I joined industry associations to learn, right? I knew there were things I needed to learn, and it quickly became evident that the hotel industry needed. Advocacy and individuals who love to promote it and build pathways for others. And I have found that especially important as technology and distribution was advancing rapidly in the nineties and there just weren't enough people to go out there and talk about it. So I was always happy to volunteer to go train. It didn't have to be even my own company. Like it just this idea that. Training others will benefit everybody. And I did a lot of that and I embraced doing that. And I volunteered a lot of my time in the training and writing educational materials. Again, not just for me or my company, but to be shared. And as the importance of that visibility of distribution and revenue management came into the into the industry. I was able to then turn to having much more of a focus on the people of the industry. A lot of what we're doing right now with the foundation at H S M A I is really focusing on talent. And I do some of that work also with the center for Hospitality Research at Cornell. And when there's talent related issues, those things are really important to me. I also did a really I did a reverse mentor program with women in hospitality and travel. In 2022, that was a great experience to learn from a younger generation. And I have to tell you, a reverse mentor program was hard cuz when you're used to being the mentor, you, you want to set the agenda and, but this was an environment where They the, my mentor in this case who was a younger person she set the time, but I had to set the agenda of things I wanted to talk to her about and learn from her, which was amazing. So sometimes again, turning yourself around and going outside your comfort zone can be in incredibly Mind opening in that way. It was hard, but it was a really great learning experience as well. And something that I learned, if I hadn't gotten into this idea of focusing on people and volunteerism, I don't know that I would've had it in me to do that. So from a personal level, giving back and playing an active role in education from so many aspects has been super, of course, personally rewarding. And then when I look at it from a professional standpoint It's allowed me to see many different aspects of hospitality from different vantage points. Whether it was a different, in difference in hotel operators or how other companies operate. It's been great building block for networking of course. And volunteerism has helped me grow my leadership skillset because, In volunteerism, in the, especially in the association world, resources can be really scarce. And when someone is willing to raise up their hand to own a project, no one has to ask twice. It's definitely given to you. It's that, also that funny saying if you leave the room, you're the one who gets volunteered. But but doing it from a professional standpoint is also helped me with time management and honing my own leadership skillset in different ways and stretching in other ways. There's lots of benefits all the way around when people devote themselves to volunteering.

Dorothy Dowling:

And you've highlighted a few very important things from a career point of view in my perspective. Michelle. One is the network value of getting yourself peer network in the industry that can help you learn and grow and obviously support your career journey. I think the other aspect is that ability to grow leadership because you are given stretch assignments because, You've put your hand up and you have Taking the ownership to take on that role. So I think that is what volunteerism really affords leaders if they're willing to take on that extra work. There's one thing that you said though, in terms of your reverse mentorship journey, that again, I would like to highlight a little bit, Michelle, which I think is a real credit to your leadership because a lot of folks talk about leaders, the CEO leader today, or the president leader that. They are rock stars and they love to hear their own voice. They have a lot of hubris. And what I would say, I think what you continue to demonstrate through this conversation is, Again, your ability to learn and grow and not to suffer from any of those kinds of things. To understand that you're on a continuous journey of learning and that you wanna continue to learn from all individuals in your organization and outside your organization to feel your growth. So I think that's a very meaningful lesson that I appreciate you sharing.

Michelle Woodley:

Yeah. Dodi I've always said to people like when I stop learning or I. When a day goes by that I have stopped learning something new or that I feel I haven't taught somebody else something new, like then I know it's time for me to move on. Haven't gotten there yet. So

Dorothy Dowling:

I don't think you ever will with the attitude that you have, Michelle, cuz I think you embrace learning and everything you do I would like to move a little onto resiliency because we've all worked in this industry for a long time. There's been a lot of up and downs. Obviously the most dramatic for many of us was through the pandemic. But I'm wondering if you can talk about how you have continued to navigate the business cycles personally, professionally and any advice again that you would share with the audience about learnings that you could share.

Michelle Woodley:

Sure. I think we all think about the significant time periods, whether it was nine 11 or the financial crisis in oh eight or most recently, the pandemic. But there's been little micro microcosms in between all of those, and I think through all of them so there's one side of it for me that has been the belief that travel. Is is really treasured by those who have done it and it's something that a lot of people aspire to do. And leaning on that has been really important for me. Having faith in human behavior and grasping that travel and hospitality really are borderless has been a bit of a guiding light for me and that. As I see more people travel, the world does start to become a little bit of a better place. And that's that's on the kind of keeping moving ahead and why do I stay in the industry and the, and having the positive attitude about travel and about hospitality from a business standpoint. Having a solid foundation has been really paramount through all of these kind of experiences that we've been through. And I feel that it falls into two categories. There's, of course, a financial foundation is always making sure that. You're running the company and considering all the people who you have responsibility to, both the clients as well as your associates and making sure that financially you're unstable ground and and not taking too many risks that put you outside of a comfort zone to, to plan for that rainy day. And the site, the second side of this, the foundation is strong relationships with your team and your clients. Having the agility from a business standpoint to prioritize spend and control costs is what comes when we go through these times of crises, which is super important and of course really relevant. But having those solid relationships with clients for us, that's our hotels that goes beyond a transactional relationship has really been invaluable, probably most. Most seen during the last few years with the pandemic. Of course there were financial issues that we had to deal with and we did. But the most important thing that we did and was. The most rewarding was reaching out to our hoteliers just to say hello and ask them how they and their teams were doing. I had calls set up with our general managers, owners from around the world, and I think they, they really thought that the call was, when are you gonna pay us? And it was just, I'm just calling to see how you are and you see this sense of relief on their face and, oh, that's all you. No, no one's called to ask how we are and to understand what they were going through. Of course, it informed us to know what kind of tools and resources they needed, whether it was other kinds of town halls and or things to keep their associates busy and keep them informed. But truly just that idea of having, knowing you had a relationship beyond transactional was really important and we saw the payoff for that. Then as they. We stuck with them and they stuck through us getting through the pandemic and then reengaging with them at the right level as everybody and every part of the world was ready too. And the relationships that we had and had and still have with our associates was also really critical in moving through difficult times. Again, most recent experience being the pandemic transparency was for sure a key element for us in dealing with staffing. And of of course we had to make some very tough decisions, but Dorothy, I can't tell you how. Humbling. It was when in, in some of the, I, some of the conversations we were having, whether it was laying people off or even furloughing, where Steph was saying, you've done so much for me over the last five, 10 years, I. This is the least I can do right now. Oh my God. It was a really humbling experience to go through. And then as we move forward with a stable team and in turn to growing back up as a company restaffing a focus on health and wellbeing of our associates is actually, it's a key tenet of our ideology. We care. And now more than ever, I think we all see just the importance of not losing sight of that or. Thinking, oh, we're over it and the effects are gone cuz they, they certainly aren't. And having that continual reminder of humanity is really important. And yeah, we continue to focus on that. We can't lose sight of that. I think all of those things or just contribute as to how we get through challenging times and adversity in our lives. And we never we, I think we all know now we never know what's gonna come nor how long is it gonna stay around. Yeah,

Dorothy Dowling:

and I think that's really solid advice, Michelle. And there's the aspect of having that financial accountability and understanding that you've gotta support the company's health, but also this whole value of investing in relationships and being very thoughtful in terms of trying to bring that humanity forward in, in understanding individual's needs as they navigate a lot of these. Very difficult time. Again, great advice from a great leader who obviously is someone who is very focused on bringing that human skill forward. So thank you. We're coming up near the end of our interview and the question that we always like to ask everyone who joins d e i advisors is if there is advice, if you were to go back. And think about that younger self when you were part of the Swiss Hotel Network or something else, if there's advice you would offer. I know you have two sons and I'm sure that you often are asked to give them some career guidance, so I'm just wondering if you put yourself in their shoes or some of your associate shoes, if there's advice that, if it was Michelle Woodley that was receiving the advice, what you would

Michelle Woodley:

offer. Yeah, of course. I think about that a lot of course, with my own kids and try to give them the the advice that I would've wanted to hear, and I, and some of that's about taking the risks and be sure to take even more time to enjoy the joys of travel. That's what I would've told myself to enjoy it even more. I think I enjoyed my travels a lot, but I would encourage myself to enjoy it even more. And of course all the experience that it brings to the table. And just to be forever curious never be afraid to ask a question, ask. The why, because chances are other people around the table are asking that same question. So that, that's where I focus on on those kinds of things as well as do what you love and love what you do. I've said that numerous times to my kids in the last six months is saying, Hey there, we all have our own different journey and you will find it. But if you're doing what you love and love what you do, it makes it actually, it makes it a little easier.

Dorothy Dowling:

And I think those are wonderful pieces of advice. And I do think from individuals that have had long careers, Michelle taking a little bit of time through that earlier journey to smell the flowers and to enjoy some of what. Your work experience afforded you is a really great lesson. And I also think just enjoying the world and the work is always a powerful lesson for everyone. So I just wanna express my gratitude to you, Michelle, for taking the time to share your story. I learned a lot about you that I didn't know, and I truly have a even deep appreciation for. The way I see you in the work that we get to do together and for the great leadership we bring to the industry. So I'm just incredibly grateful to you, so thank you.

Michelle Woodley:

Oh, thank you Dorothy. And again I love what d e I is doing and I think empowering personal success is really important for everybody, and especially in this day and age. We need to promote it and encourage it and not assume that it's happening on its own. So thank you. It's been a pleasure.

Dorothy Dowling:

Said. Thank you. So thank you also to our audience and I'm hoping if you enjoyed this interview with Michelle, that you will visit us on our website, dei advisors.org, where you will see other webcasts and podcasts from other leaders brilliant leaders like Michelle that I know will empower your knowledge and feel your spirit. So we hope to see you there. Thank you again, Michelle.

Michelle Woodley:

Thanks Dorothy. Bye-bye.