Suzanne Neufang, CEO, Global Business Travel Association, interviewed by Dorothy Dowling

Suzanne outlines her journey from part-time public broadcaster to CEO of GBTA with stops in
Hawaii and Connecticut and her progressive experience in several tech companies that helped
her develop skills and approaches that have made her a successful executive in the travel
industry. How being aware of the trends in the industry and the workplace in general gives you
the opportunity to plan for new career opportunities.

She also outlines the importance of having a supportive family and spouse to her career
advancement. She highlights the importance of following your passion, but also of being aware
of your limitations; the experience of Covid has shown there is a need to moderate your
commitments so that you can show up as your whole self to the workplace.

Transcript

Dorothy Dowling: 0:02

Greetings. I am Dorothy Dowling, a principal of D E I advisors. We are a nonprofit organization dedicated to personal empowerment. I am delighted to welcome Suzanne Neufang, c e o of Global Business Travel Association to our d e I show. Suzanne, welcome to our show. It is an honor to have you with us today.

Suzanne Neufang: 0:21

Glad to be here.

Dorothy Dowling: 0:23

Suzanne, you have had an interesting career spanning technology, distribution, consulting, and now association leadership. Would you mind sharing your career history and your journey in becoming such an effective and well respective senior executive in our industry?

Suzanne Neufang: 0:39

That's really you to say. Dorothy, I feel honored to be on the same webcast with you here. Thanks of course for having me here. I guess I'm, what you could say, a woman of many industries because right out of college I spent a few years. In the broadcasting industry, and then nearly a decade in a Fortune 50 telecom company. And then finally got to my true love the travel industry. I think the common thread for me though throughout those has been how technology, global cultures and human experience intersect and travel is all about human experience and connections. I'm probably really in my heart of hearts, just an unfulfilled social scientist. I love research. I love Behavioral economics and the things that make people do what they do. And it's probably something I didn't even realize was a thing until I pursued my master's in communication at the U University of Hawaii over 30 years ago. And of course back then we were raising a family in Honolulu, Hawaii where my husband had landed a great university librarian job. And while he was working full-time at the university and I worked part-time in public broadcasting at that point in my career, He and I were both pursuing advanced degrees and raising a family. And man, what a crazy time. But as we like to say, we were poor, busy, and happy. And when you don't know better, you don't know better. And then my job moved us all away from Hawaii. So I usually tell anybody when I'm telling my story that I'm not as smart as I look. Because of course his job moved us to paradise and my job moved us away, moved us to the Northeastern fact and. By then I was working for a Fortune 50 company that a lot of people, at least in the United States and maybe even beyond the United States, had never heard of before G T e which was one of the big rural and in certain urban areas at the telephone company. And I landed a transfer to their corporate headquarters in Stanford, Connecticut. So went from. Eternal summer to winter to run their still then very new internet strategies. So this was in the mid nineties. And I have to say, Dorothy, I learned so much there. How to work with senior leadership of a public company, how a well-funded brand organization works with top New York City advertising and.com agencies, how an endowed foundation serves the public good. And how to coalesce a brand new internet strategy. We didn't really know what it was. Worldwide Web. I was called a webmaster when I first got there, and I am not a technical coder. Within a company really with so many B2B and B2C divisions that finding the common cause and the common brand within their elements and their mission was really a great challenge. And of course Not that long into my tenure there, I learned about huge m and a oper operationalization challenges because g t E and Bell Atlantic formed Verizon while I was there as well. And we all, I think, are familiar with Verizon at this point. So from Verizon, I took a leap of faith to, to take this B2B and B2C online experience to the ever great industry of travel. And I started in travel light. I started in c B2C space at Travelocity, running a product for them. And I was promoted internally two years into my stint there in what I think is a way more complex and perhaps for me, really interesting, more interesting space of B2B travel. Working for a couple of different divisions at Saber, the parent company of Travelocity. That included Travelocity business for a time and then ultimately almost eight years at Get There which is an online corporate booking tool. And there I learned everything from general management and related sales skills and a whole lot. About international corporate travel practices and business culture and how travel is a reflection of every corporate culture because the policy really reflects why and how they meet. I left Saber and joined Intuit for a year, so I left the travel industry. And went into tax software. It's a great company to be sure, but tax software wasn't where my passions lay. And I was lucky to land back in the travel industry a year later in a regional expansion role at Germany based h HR s. And there I learned how to build and staff physical offices including New York City and Dallas, and San Francisco at the time. And certainly how to fine tune a non HQ based division. This was one of the first times I wasn't in an HQ role. And set marketing priorities, sales priorities, and certainly telling stories marketing stories about what the solutions could do in the grand scheme of things within the. That travel ecosystem that also moved us to New York City. So it was then after I left hrs that the G B T A association opportunity presented its itself. And by then I was certainly drawn to big transformation opportunities and that is really what my last two and a half years have become, and have been so fun certainly in being able to work with esteemed professionals such as yourself, but also with some big. Solving some big problems that we have across the industry and certainly with the association itself.

Dorothy Dowling: 5:46

I think there's a lot to unpack there. Suzanne, I have to say I've always been an admirer of your career, but just actually understanding the depth and breadth gives me a much deeper appreciation of why you are such an amazing leader in our industry. So thank you for that. I'm wondering if we can go a little bit back to some of the moves that you have done, because obviously you're a parent. It was delightful to hear about the relationship that you and your husband partnered together on some of these career decisions. But I'm wondering if you can share a little bit about how, as a family you made some of these decisions about these moves and relocations.

Suzanne Neufang: 6:20

Yeah. The, we spent the longest time of our 34. Six years married half of that, I guess almost half of that was spent in Dallas, Texas. And so there were a lot of child rearers years that did in the D F W area. But early on we moved to Hawaii with a brand new baby. And I am so fortunate that my, my husband Ralph, who is German, a German native has been so supportive of balancing our opportunities and what was best for our family throughout these many years together. During, there was almost a seven or eight or 10 year period during which during at least the first 25 years together where he was able to take a break. He was tenured and was on a tenure track and could take a sabbatical during one of those years. That was after our second son was born. So we had some great juggling of family and careers. I was able to take some breaks along the way throughout some of those big industry shifts. And I think that replenished us in a way that got us back and fresh. And then we were able to, both give it our, all with some demanding careers. And then yeah, certainly his job moved us from North Dakota to Hawaii and my job moved us from Hawaii to Connecticut. And then both of our jobs, we were both, by then working at the same telecom company moved us to Dallas, Texas. And then in About probably about 12 or 13 years into our Dallas, Texas stint. We we looked around. I think our older son had just gotten to college by that point. And our latchkey younger son definitely, I think he would admit it. Now he's almost, he's in his late twenties. He he would admit that he could use a bit more parental supervision. And so at that point, my husband and I had this discussion. My husband actually brought it up and he said, one of us should stay at home. And please let it be me. He raised his hand. So I think a lot like your own story, Dorothy. I ended up with a stay-at-home husband who really made sure that, as I was rising up the corporate ranks at various roles as they became more more strenuous, more travel involved, certainly more and longer days that my husband picked up the Picked up the reigns at home and just became, we became a very reverse couple in many ways. And we're lucky now we moved to New York, but one of our older son was already living here and he's still here. Our younger son is since landed on the West coast. But certainly those family times are still super important to us. And I think it's, cool that our two sons see see their mom in this kind of role because that certainly influences how they think about the women in their lives as well and what they do with colleagues and others in their own world. So we certainly influence those even when we don't have daughters.

Dorothy Dowling: 9:02

First of all, thank you for sharing a lot of that personal aspect of your life, Suzanne, cuz I know you and I both know that having that kind of foundational support is the only way that we can really take on really demanding roles. And I know Harvard Business Review wrote an article, I think it was in the past 12 months that really spoke about women that are able to really break through into senior rules. Have a foundational partner that really takes a backseat to allow them to take on a lot of the demands of the job. And I also concur with you that having sons I have won myself, but being a role model to show that women are, can be very successful leaders, but they do need that kind of support from their partner, I know is transformational for them and I'm sure for their. Their partners once they make some of those important decisions for their life. So I know your husband was a big mentor and career champion to you, but given all of these amazing jobs that you've had over your career, Suzanne, are there other individuals that were really important in shaping your career journey that offered you mentorship, allyship, sponsorship, all of the great things that we all speak of today as being important to fostering career development?

Suzanne Neufang: 10:18

Yeah, it's I think someone on my team recently called building a career analogous to growing a garden, and that just really spoke to me because sometimes your garden has has a lot of great vegetables going and you do something practical with them. And sometimes your garden just has a bunch of flowers and you just like to look at it. And I think a career is sometimes. Like that. And I think I would look back at my old age and think about that every boss I've had has been the right boss that I needed at the time. And every boss I've had has been some kind of mentor to me. I think I've learned both Things that I should replicate and things that I just wasn't gonna put in my toolkit as a way that I would do things. And I think it's important to then create that judgment that judgment for you. It's a little bit like parenting, I think, that way that you think about how your friends or your family parent their children, you think about the way that you're going to do it. Similarly in some ways and differently in others. And I think that sort of boss relationship is similar to me that way because you spend so much time, we spend so much time at work often more times than with our families during certain years. And I think it's. Really important that we're around people that can influence us that way. I certainly have to give both GTE at a Fortune 50 level and Saber at a smaller but still public. They went public and private during my years there. Give them credit for really setting up structured professional development programs as well as coaches who made a huge difference in how I approached my job, the company, the role I'm in, and certainly the industry opportunities. One lasting memory I have around this is from my saber days when there were 12 or 15 of us in an executive development cohort and one of those courses took us for one of those sessions to India. And one of the last ones took us to London and we happened to be all in London. When ik, the Icelandic volcano, I've learned how to say the name of it during this whole ordeal when the volcano blew and we were all stranded. And certainly one of peer mentorship, and this is probably a story about peer mentorship. Don't underestimate peers and the kind of mentoring you can give to each other. I learned that if you're ever stranded somewhere short of war and some kind of terrible. Predicament that is is difficult to get out of. Something like an ash cloud. The best people to be with are a bunch of travel experts, someone who knows airline distribution, someone who knows travel agency side, and certainly on our bus ride from Paris. From Paris all the way down to Madrid. We had experts who were watching their systems, making sure that there were gonna be plane to take off in Madrid when we got there. And then the other ones that I would mention is that we also ought to Look at digital natives who are coming into into the workforce as Gen Z. I've heard the term millennial, someone who's between a millennial and a Gen Z. And I think as consumers, as people who have, either went to university or did their trade skill upskilling during a time that had so many more digital tools available to them and the way they think about culture and what opportunities especially are in the travel world. I learn a lot from the younger folks on our teams and in our industry as well. And I think that is, is some of the lasting sort of places that I go to make sure that my garden is growing well.

Dorothy Dowling: 13:40

I think that's a beautiful metaphor in terms of really thinking about the structure of our career. And when I hear about the intentionality, Suzanne, of how you have tried to straddle various elements of the sector, various types of companies that are in different stages of their maturation, it really strengthens your capability in whatever role you bring because you have such a deep appreciation of what different organizations are going through. And I'm sure that. Provides you with tremendous capabilities in your current role. But what I also liked is that anthropological approach that you have taken in terms of the experience of being in the role and learning from others in the role and being very true to yourself in terms of. what you wanna put in your toolkit. I loved that analogy. And those that are maybe better suited for others. So great advice for audience, and I thank you for sharing that. I'm wondering if I can move specifically to something that I just have enormous admiration for you, Suzanne, and I think I've shared with you. I am always dazzled by you when you're on stage. You are one of the most eloquent, commanding speakers I have observed in my career. So I just love listening to you. I love learning from you in terms of the actual style that you bring to the content that you deliver on stage. And I'm just wondering if there are any tips that you can offer because communication is such an important skillset for a leader and you are at the top of individuals that I have seen in that capability. So please share some of your wisdom with us.

Suzanne Neufang: 15:16

You're so kind. I'm blushing. I'm not sure if the video camera can pick that up or not. I'm lucky because I was on an early stage. My mom put us in, we, we grew up in on a farm in Western North Dakota. My mom. Stuck, my brother and sister and me in all kinds of activities that would put us, in a public stage, either in a music concert or on a public stage at four h or other things. So that ability to speak in front of people was something that honed early. But even if that was not, and is not your experience, I think what and you don't have a broadcasting major like I do. I think the other tools and tips that I would give is practice. Certainly practice helps a lot. It might not take away your nerves. And I actually think some nerves before you go on a big or a small stage are really helpful because they help you hone in on what your message is, what your story is. If you've practiced, where you might dive off into a place that you shouldn't go if you don't. Practice. You might not know that. But I think the other real thing that it, that I would take full advantage of, everybody has a mobile phone. Everybody seems to have, either a selfie stick or a a tripod that things work on. Or you have your laptop, record yourself, see how you look, critique yourself. There's great PR training and media training companies that aren't that expensive. Some consultants that would also take you aside. And help you to fine tune a few things. And again, I've been in roles where I've been lucky enough to have formal media training not only from the back of the camera, which was, my bachelor's degree, but in the front of the camera. It's quite different. And you also need to be aware of, when you're reading Talking Points and you could stray off into something that is something the company doesn't want you to talk about, it just trains your mind to be. Thinking, listening and speaking all at the same time without losing your track of thought. So that does take practice. I think I'm a much better interviewer than I am an interviewee. That is that it's fun to sit and talk to people. And I think if you can think of your audience as someone who can learn something from you if you're comfortable teaching in a small group that teaching. Spot is also public speaking. And if you teach and do others in a smaller, big way, I think you'll become more comfortable. Everybody will become more comfortable as well when they're on a stage and they don't have, a rolling script that they can read, but that they can go with their notes and be very comfortable that they're somewhere reaching someone in the audience that needs to hear their story.

Dorothy Dowling: 17:50

Well, a lot of great depths there and it is one of those important qualities that everyone speaks about in terms of executive presence, Suzanne, but I do think that intentionality about focusing on your communication capabilities, And I do think that element of preparation, that is something, as I said I sit back and I admire because you have such a broad role with G B T A, but you can speak to so many topics with such authority and I know that you put a lot of time into making sure you're ready to deliver that message. And I'm just grateful for the amazing role model. You are too, women and all individuals in terms of how to be so commanding. So I'm wondering if I can move on to something else, because I know you've been with G B T A now for almost three years, but you do have this amazing capability to build and develop strong teams, and you really have done an amazing job with some of the talent that you have brought to G B T A. And I'm just wondering if you can share thoughts about your ability to, the learnings that you've had in terms of building great team followership and how you really invest in your teams today to really help them. With their career journeys?

Suzanne Neufang: 19:02

Yeah. I think that's such a great question because we ultimately, no matter how far you end up on a in an organization, how high up you go you will always have direct reports and you will have people who look up to those direct reports. And it is the way you show up is the way that people around you will show up as well. And so that's certainly important. I'm a firm believer in having people. People who are smarter than me are very diverse in both backgrounds as well as culturally, as well as who they identify as, and making sure that cornucopia of talent and skills and viewpoints is something that makes every group I've ever been in charge of. Just better. And I think more willing to work with, than customers who might not agree with what you think either. So I think that helps frame that that kind of sensibility that you have. From the first time I became a manager at GB, at G T e, lots of Gs in my life at g t e, at the telecom company in Connecticut. I was forming a team who knew who could do something with this internet thing and they're. There weren't even really people other than, if someone had worked at a university in New ARPA or DARPA and had worked with the government who knew how this ultimately worldwide web was going to work. So I really watched for talent in agencies that we were working with, and I think if you got consultants or you have you have outsourced anything of your business, To other companies. I've had such good luck finding gems of talent creative thinkers, people who have a strong work ethic, people who have a lot of global experience with those interactions. I think every conference and convention anybody goes to, they should always be looking for talent. Someone who sparks their interest, just, try don't. Try not to hang around with people you know, because that's where you will find someone that has something interesting or go watch a session, a breakout session with people you don't know and haven't met before. I think there's ways to look for that talent. I'm also a big one for asking people I trust who don't work for me if they know someone with a certain skillset that I'm looking for. If If someone doesn't pop into my mind with an opening that we have, and that's some of that was how we receded some of the great people that we have at G B T A again and certainly how I've placed people in roles in other groups that I've had. And I think finally, thank goodness there are tools such as LinkedIn. I think when you really do have an a role that you just don't know where the talent lies, associations are a great place to look. But you also have LinkedIn to start scrolling through and even just seeing what kind of job descriptions are describing what you. Also have, and make sure that your job description fits what other other groups, not even competitors, but other groups with the same kind of title. And you can then look to see what kind of people have that kind of, what looks like a sim, a skillset that could fit for that. And then I think it's really important to have a strong. Structured interviewing panel to make sure that, yeah, you might love someone, but maybe there's something that you didn't see that was a weak spot that, or a cultural fit that wasn't gonna work. And I've had these interview panels be part of why someone doesn't make it through, even though maybe I worked with them in the past, but that particular organization, it wasn't gonna be a good thing. Fit. So I think when you have strong leaders and people around you and you've got a diversity of thinking, I think you get better results as that way as well. And no more important topic to me than talent because talent is both the willingness but also the the cultural fit in the way that people, some people work harder longer, some people work faster, shorter, and making sure you've got that right balance. Everybody who wor who is the same, makes for, to me, a really boring workplace. And I certainly don't wanna work with a bunch of people who are just like me. So it, that's really been one of my mantras in building teams. I'd be curious about what your experience has been. Dorothy, if we could turn the tables a little bit, what have you found has worked in your career?

Dorothy Dowling: 23:12

I was going to commend you for Suzanne because there's so much there that you offered in terms of leaning into your network, and I know you have a very powerful one, and having trusted advisors that help guide you. I also think, there were things that you shared that I also do in terms of looking at. How people are positioning jobs in their organizations because the world is continuing to shift, understanding the way people are building employer branding, and really the language that they're using in terms of developing up the roles that they need for today and tomorrow. But I also think just that formalized practice that you have of using panels, which of course is a best practice that everyone. Speaks to you today in terms of being very inclusive and ensuring that you're being very responsive to diverse talent pools. So again I commend you because you're on the bleeding edge, leading edge of adopting what great organizations are doing to really build that talent base. And I concur with you, Suzanne, in the world that we live today, talent is everything. They just bring the value creation to all of the business partners that, that we all need to support in our careers. I have some parallels in the way that I look at team development, and I fundamentally believe that diversity in your team makes everyone stronger because we all teach and mentor each other. So I thank you for sharing that and Also suggests that I have some parallel points of view with what you said today. I'm wondering if I can move a little bit onto G B T A because obviously that's where we came to know each other and I obviously worked in an association environment myself, it's a different challenge because you have a lot of different advisors in the organization that want to influence the organization's direction. You're working with a very active board that also are providing you with a lot of feedback in terms of the governance and ideas that they have about the future. But you have just done an amazing job at really transforming G B K A building alignment really. Developing up this global commitment to hearing voices from other communities and really embracing a lot of the new governance expectations that is being, touted by everyone relative to sustainability and d ei. So I'm wondering if you can speak a little bit about your career and how that transformative point of view has really helped you shape the role that you're in and the value creation that you're bringing to G B T A. Yeah,

Suzanne Neufang: 25:43

this is I'm pretty sure I interviewed on parts of these things that I felt was really important for G B T A to bring to the table for its constituents. So the board knew what they were getting and in some ways, but at the same time, that passion comes from the board itself. And I'm really lucky that to have that consistent board support since I got here about these Sometimes es called e s G, sometimes in other places, people on planet. And certainly your support has been there the whole time as well when you were on the board. They're big picture topics. And while we didn't need to build everything from scratch, the climate related things we did and Some other, transformation pieces were even just when I started it was, we were still in the midst of Covid, I think it was. Delta was just kicking off the Delta variant. We were still months away from Omicron. And those ups and downs were still ahead, but, with. With great industry polling and policy advocating, especially within the US Ottawa and in Brussels we really helped. Overall, I think, and I've learned a lot in this process, helped the industry to understand that business travel is not the same as tourism. That transformation, thinking also needed to be made at the policy. Maker level. And while we, I think in a way were underestimating duty of care and wellness and the other things until the pandemic hit, we certainly knew that those were the utmost importance to companies that we call as members once we were in that pandemic space and then. Comes the sustainability part of it, the climate action. Really since November, 2021 when we kicked off really the biggest new initiative that we've had in some time as an association we we brought ourselves into the climate action space and I would say that the buyer enthusiasm, their one half of our association. But also the supplier enthusiasm. The other half of our association and the board reflecting both has been just phenomenal in the way that suppliers are giving of time and treasure. We have buyers who are giving of standards and best practices and ability to create toolkits. Because we also have a huge role to play in education. And everybody's starting from a different point. So getting people to a similar starting point, but then learning from. Of those who are a bit more advanced, some who are far advanced and making sure that the existential threat that is climate change for our entire industry is one that we are taking the reins helping to create the awareness at the policymaker level that some things like aviation are really hard to solve compared to some other industries. And that, but we're working on it. And I think that gives confidence and has been giving confidence to the policymakers that needs to be a blend of carrot and stick. We're really an industry that's pushing both carrot and stick. The incentives that we now are getting in the United States through the IRA last fall and the blenders tax credits and other things that we've been driving for are helping both buyers and suppliers see that we're on their side. And while at some level there, there are, there's right and left thinking about this, I think from our industry as a nonpartisan association, it's been a great middle of the road approach to thread the needle and make sure that we're focusing on what the industry needs and in smart ways that we go about it. As part of that journey we re reset up our 5 0 1 our foundation, and knowing from my, I would say indirect foundation experience back at G T E, which was self-funded through their public endowment. From our standpoint our foundation connected to our association can still be about public good, and we put people and planet related activities under there. So our great programs such as Ladders, which is about generational mentorship, win it, which is about women in travel and gender equity. Something you're very passionate about and have been a strong leader in this, as have other colleagues of ours. Those programs fit so beautifully under the people. Pillar of that. And then the sustainability and climate action fall under the planet side. So I. As we are generating, we're not even to year one of this yet, as we are generating studies and findings about where the industry is actually at in these spaces, I'm a firm believer in, we don't know how far we have to go till we know where we are today. We're starting with that kind of baseline for many of those things, and. And then our job is really to continue working on the harmonization of standards when it comes to business travel and measurements and climate action. And certainly getting the industry prepared for the hard work ahead and talking to senior leaders about where they see the innovations coming in. Cuz certainly tech and innovation need to help save this industry as well. It's not just thinking that will get us to the finish line in 2050. And certainly then we can play a big role in, in making sure that the BBC B2C travel continues as well. Because B2B travel is more organized, we can make a bigger impact faster than just going to one travelers one by one. And that's really where we see our mission in this overall space.

Dorothy Dowling: 30:59

Again, a lot of content that you shared, but I do think that forming that alliance across the industry so that there is unity and approach, because as I often think about it's everyone having a foundation in terms of how they communicate some of these changes within their own. Platforms and really demystified for the buyers and the procurers in this space so that they have some degree of appreciation of what does this mean, particularly as some of the Scope three evolution is going to continue to drive some of the performance. Okay. So we're coming up near the end of the interview, Suzanne, but there's one particular area that I'd really like to have you speak to is that you are a global travel executive and you make an enormous commitment to show up. For so many around the world, which I am extraordinarily impressed by, and I know when we were coordinating this interview you just come off a 31 day travel schedule. So again, I just would like to get some insights that you might offer audience, but how do you balance some of your personal commitments with these significant career investments that you're making on behalf of G B T A.

Suzanne Neufang: 32:10

Yeah it I would say everybody should know your passion. M my passion from very early on I studied foreign languages. I knew that I wanted to see the world. So this is part of my passion. I'm so lucky that I can fulfill this passion in the travel industry, but also you have to know your limits. And I think we all learned a lot. Through Covid that all of that downtime when you couldn't travel, it was both refreshing to get back out on the road. But I think many of us, we included, have realized that maybe our threshold is a little bit different than the go-go pre covid times. So know your passion, but also know your limits when you're traveling. Do show up with your whole self. This isn't a multitasking universe where every business trip is a precious resource. So treat it as such, I think, and meet the people and spend time with the people that you're going to be with. When our. Kids were still at home. It was certainly more, more challenging. And I, and for any young parents there listening, I'm sure it's definitely hard, especially if you're balancing a two career household. But certainly my, my husband and I were able to work out where he wanted to step back as I was traveling more. Now, today, I think. There's still a way to be supportive of each other. And even though my husband is retired now, it's, it's that important FaceTime of checking in with family when I'm gone, making sure my adult kids know where I'm going. It certainly is part of that as well. And then don't forget, the teams also need to know where you're going, and so I like to bring back. News from my travels, as I encourage anybody on my team who is traveling to bring back those stories because when you have a privilege at a company or an organization to travel, I think it's important to bring those, what you learned on the road back to the people that maybe don't travel as much or at all or maybe don't want to. So I think there's a way to blend all of that together. And while 31 days on the road, I'm sure you've had some of those months in your career was a bit unexpected. I found the perfect medium of being able to do a trip to Asia from a home base of Europe, and it was actually more sustainable that way. So there are. Reasons to make make some of those what sound extraordinarily complex trips worthwhile. Because as we think about planet care, that is one way to do planet care by doing more stops within the same the same trips going forward.

Dorothy Dowling: 34:31

Amazing advice, Suzanne and I do think it is about us all thinking about, as you said, our personal limits and trying to leverage. How we bring our best self to work, but also take that personal care to make sure our energy and our personal needs are always taken care of as well. But if I may just thank you for being so genuine, being so open to sharing so much of the learnings that you've had in your career. It's been truly a privilege to be with you. You today. And if I may, I'd also like our thank our audience because if you have enjoyed this interview with Suzanne today, I hope you'll visit our website, dei advisors.org, where you will see webcasts and podcasts from other industry leaders like Suzanne that I hope will empower your knowledge and feel your spirit like she certainly has done for me today. So Suzanne, thank you and appreciate you very much for your ongoing leadership in our

Suzanne Neufang: 35:21

industry. Thank you so much, Dorothy. It was great to be with you today. Thank

Dorothy Dowling: 35:27

you.