Sylvia Douglin, Founder, Refined Training & Consulting

Sylvia Douglin, Founder, Refined Training & Consulting, shares insights gained in her 20 years as a trainer, including what personal branding entails and why it’s important.  She also offers practical tips on how to ask for advice, how to speak up and share your ideas in a way that gets heard, and why learning how to write for business can further your career.  Sylvia explains the difference between a mentor and an advocate, how to select a mentor or advocate, how to develop those relationships, and discusses the significant differences in what diversity encompasses today.

Transcript

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Welcome. Today I am really pleased to have si Sylvia Douglin with us. She has been in the hospitality industry for over 20 years including as an on property director of human resources at F Full Service Hotel in Arlington, Virginia. And for the last 17 years, she's been directing training initiatives in the C-suites of three major third party management. And she also offers training in professionalism and business communication at colleges through her own firm, refined training and consulting. Welcome Sylvia. Thank you to have you. Wonderful. Thank you. So I was hoping we could start and talk a little bit about your background in your career, and maybe we could start with how you got interested in human resources and training and how that led you to hospital. Okay. I have again been training, I've been training somebody in something since the eighties. and I started out as that digital Equipment Corporation, if anybody remembers what that is. It became Hewlett Pack and they had a program for diversity. They were trying to introduce diversity into that organization and they were looking for people to train who had trained something before. And they were looking for people of color and. and I raised my hand and said, I definitely, I've trained people before. I'm a woman and I'm a person of color. I can check all the boxes off. And so I went into their program and that's how I got into corporate training. Very different than a classroom training situation. And I've, I did that individually and around the country and I ended up with a management consulting. and that's how I really got into the high end corporate training for years. And one of our clients turned out to be big hotel companies, and I went and trained with them and then ended up working for them. And I was in the HR unit, so that's how, that was around 2000 year, 2000. And I've been in hotels and doing training with them for them all this time. Wonderful. So as a director of training, what are the key things that you focus on? In the hotel industry we focus on leadership because if the leaders of the properties, Are not strong and really taking their people to the next level. And in insisting on quality, those sorts of things then that it really doesn't work very well. And we wanna make sure that our leaders understand how to lead people. I teach customer service. I used to teach back in the day harassment prevention and those sorts. And I also make sure that training is going on at all various properties that the brands have training that the individual hotels have to adhere to making sure that's happening and safety and things like that. So I make sure all that is going on at the properties. Got it. So one of the other things, one of the other skills you teach is building your personal brand. So I'm curious how you build your personal brand and any tips you might have for our viewers. Bur your own personal brand is critical because that is what you're putting out to the world. And people think I've got my college degree and my mother says, I'm wonder. And that's all I need. Off I go. No, you've gotta be seen by your colleagues as a viable member of the team. So this is on the, this is looking at it from the work side, the personal side. It goes into that a little bit as well. But as how do you present, what do you say, when do you say, how do you read the politics in any organization that you belong? what do you look like? And that doesn't mean that you have to look like a Kardashian or you have any of that sort of thing, but you do. I look right for where I'm going, who I'm seeing right now. and then so your personal brand. After a while, it begins to be how people expect you to show up, and you can end up getting an opportunity to do things that you might not have gotten a chance to do, or it is not working for you. Sometimes you're ass out. She's great. No. So your brand is gonna go out before you when you are not there to speak for yourself. So you really have to understand what are you putting out. That makes sense. So I wanted to ask you you've been doing training for a long time and how have your skills evolved? When you first started working, not just in training, but when you first started in your career versus now, have you found that the skills that you need evolve over your career? They have. When I first started training, it was stick to the script and make sure people, it was almost as if back in the day, you were taking classroom training into the corporate world, and you know how it is in school. You sit down, fold your hand and listen to the teacher. Over the years, what I have discovered is that's really not effective at all with adults. Doesn't work that well with kids either, but that's another story, But what adults need to share and exchange. And so what I have learned over time is how to stay with my program. Making sure time and the salient points are being covered and all that, while allowing an exchange with the audience, with the participants so that they can share their information and also to lead them to the point that we are trying to make and they discover it to, to exchanging their own information and people don't dispute their own data. So they didn't realize, oh wow this can work. I have been doing this, so this is something I can try. It's, it doesn't feel something so out of their skin that they're uncomfortable with it because they may find things they can do. Got it. And how about some advice you, would you, what advice would you give to your younger self that you wish you knew earlier in your career? Don't be afraid to step out there. It's when you're young, you think that everybody knows more than me, and I'm just here and I'm just going to keep my mouth shut and follow along and follow direction. What it turns out is that kind of holds you back. You need to be a little bit bold, a little bit. and to say yes to things and get involved with things that are just outside your comfort zone. And I would tell my younger self that it's going to be okay and to go on and do the thing. Also, that people are also rooting for you more than you're thinking. Folks don't wanna see. you crash and burn. They really don't. Yes. So they're trying to, they give you support. They'll tell you what you need to do. People reach out their hand and sometimes people don't take it. Take the hand, ask people for a few minutes of their time. They're, as long as you get to the point and get on with it, then they're happy to give you a few minutes to help you. They want to see you succeed. That's really great. I wish I had that advice when I was younger when I was younger. So switching over a little bit to handling diversity issues. Being a woman and a person of color sometimes presents unique challenges in terms of, sometimes being overlooked, undervalued, or underestimated. And so I'm curious if that's something that ever happened to you. In your career sometimes, but at some of it's, how do you deal with that? if people are talking ar in around you, say you're at a meeting or something, and again, my younger self, you're at a meeting something and everybody's this and that and the other thing. And look, Bob, here's what we're going to. if you raise your hand, excuse me, I have an idea. And here it is. I did that at a meeting, scared the stuffings outta me. But it worked is you could be overlooked. If you don't say anything, you gotta know what to say. And as a woman, you've gotta get to the. I've been in meetings where women get overlooked because when they put the point out there, I had this idea on the way to work. Maybe it's a little silly. I don't know. Maybe you'll think of something better. Two hours later, she finally says, here's my idea. Everybody's eyes have rolled back in their head and you have already discounted your point. When men, I watched and men. here's what I think we should do. And they say whatever it is, and sometimes it's accepted, sometimes it's not. Put the ideas out there, I think, when get overlooked because we, we apologize too much. We don't do it as much as we did before, and I think sometimes now we can be too bold. Here's what it's, and you all are gonna do what I say. Breathe to say your point strong, be real clear with it, and then sit down and let the information soak in and then participate in the discussion that comes around after. Yeah. And power of silence to stop talking. No one to stop talking. That, that is so important, what you just said, the power of silence after you've said something. Not to be silent, but say something and then be quiet. So what are some of the things you did over the course of your career to create opportunities for. I raised my hand and I took jobs that I wasn't supposed to have back in the day cuz I'm not a young person anymore. You got outta school and you secretarial jobs, administrative jobs, what they were offering women back in the day. and a friend of mine told me about Xerox was hiring women to in sales roles. And I had been an admin ever since, and wanted to get out of that and do something different. And I went in and learned how to sell. learning how to sell, even though it's not one of my favorite things, it is one of the most important things you, that you learn because it's what points do you need to bring forward? How do you get up in front of somebody that you don't know, somebody new, cold calling and that sort of thing. You have to be brave to do that. And shake someone's hand and present your product. That was one of the biggest and most useful skills that I developed along the way. And it helps with the training sometimes too, because you walk into a a room, we train big group of people, 50 people, 60 people in a room at the same time, and then it's you. You've gotta own your. and the sales training was a big help towards understanding how to do that. Yes, I convinced myself early in my career that I wasn't any good at sales. And it turned out later when I found something I was passionate about, I was very good at sales. So you never know. Sometimes you underestimate yourself. And sales sounds scary. It does. Talking to people you don't know sounds. But sometimes you just, go forward and you do, like you said, you figure out the points, what you need to know and you go do it. Yep. And and it gets more comfortable over time. It does. It really does. Yeah. How about there's a lot of discussion lately about advocates and mentors and how they're different now, advocate and mentor are different. What are some of the ways that people could find advocates and mentors for themselves to help advance their careers? I think a couple of things. One of'em is you come into an organization, you need to look around first. Who's in here in the first. And what is get, take the temperature of the folks in there. There are some people who can tell you, but they're not good mentors. Everybody's not a good mentor. They might be a good advocate who, who here is on, but look at right now. Who here is on my side and wants to see my project, my initiative, whatever it is, move forward. And for that person, you need a you need an advocate. somebody who's gonna go into the meeting with the CEO or whoever is the next level up in your group and say, that's a good program that putting together. Take a look at it and a mentor. You need somebody who's going to take time with you and help groom you and get you to the next level. How to, how the company works or how to move up the ladder or whatever. It's, and that you need somebody. Who is willing to put in the time who you can stick your head in their door and say, what just happened? they won't tell you. They'll tell you the good and the bad and they'll help you work on the things that you need to improve. And it's not, and these folks, whether it's the advocate or the mentor, are not a dime a dozen. but you need to pick somebody who is you feel comfortable talking with and to get back to bravery some and go in, I need somebody to help me. Do you have a few minutes? And when I say a few minutes, I really do mean a few minutes. Pick a time. We have 15, 20 minutes, and at 19 minutes you're standing up and you're getting ready to leave. Can you help me? I'm trying to navigate the organization. I'm trying to navigate what's going on around here. I have a program that I wanna present and I need to know how to move it through the organization. Can you help me figure that out? Or if you can't, do you know somebody who could and then be quiet? That's great. Gonna ask. any other suggestions you would offer for people looking to advance in their careers, things that they should think about? One of the big ones is be prepared. I have been in places where people now fumbling around looking for paper pens, look like you're ready to do. if you're trying, if particularly if you're young and moving in, or you're the they're bringing in people of color and yes, everybody should be rated the same and all that. That's nice. And reality is you're the new person, whatever that means. And you can't come in. Somebody calls you into a meeting and you just walk in. Huh? really just a minute you go and get something to write with you, get you a pen. I think I'm on my way. And then you go ready to take notes, write something down, pretend to write something because then you look like I'm here to participate as opposed to wandering around. That's one of the things. the ability to write for business is another key thing that young people, and I'm sad to say, many older folks as well do not do well. Business writing is not the same as writing a book. Business writing is to the point, what do I need? 1, 2, 3. Net it out and send it, and it needs to be spell checked. It's not in text speak. You don't know where this thing is going. This is gonna represent you when you're not there. So learn how to write a succinct, concise, as old boss used to say, pithy. email document so that it tells you, tells people what you need them to do, because that's something that nobody's ever gonna say. If you just ran spell check, maybe I'd have promoted you. But in reality, if you really did just run, spell check, they might have promoted you. It's one of the things that now, because they don't even do that, so then they're never gonna tell you that. But that's one of the reasons why you may not. Absolutely, yes. Definitely seen that in action before. That's that's really great advice. So shifting gears a little bit to talk a bit more about diversity in the workplace and the world has obviously changed a lot. There's a lot of new unspoken rules and people maybe don't even realize some of the things they're done, that they're doing may no longer be appropriate or accept. what are some of the common things that you see happening, maybe unintentional things that people say or do to to women to other mar, to marginalized groups that maybe they're unaware are offensive? There's a couple of things. One thing happened the other day where somebody in my office, a female in my office, was bringing something. From the garage into the building. It was great, big, heavy something. There was a guy who we had, who had been through a diversity and inclusion training at the beginning, training and whatnot, and he was at the top of the stairs watching her. He and he stopped me later, said everything in me wanted to go and say, can I take that for you? But he was scared to say that because he didn't want to be seen as putting her down and she's too weak to carry these things in or whatever his natural gentlemanly tendencies he brought, he started to question, what should I do? And a lot of people feel that way. I told him, you should have just gone. Let me give you a hand and let her say, no, I got it. But people don't know what to do and they're afraid they're gonna say the wrong thing and hurt someone's feelings, or somehow make a demeaning statement unintentional. So as you said, it's everything's changed so quickly and everybody's walking on eggshells. That is one of the things that just happened recently. There's. Things that are in the lexicon that you don't realize what you're saying to somebody. And cause everybody says that they're little phrases like, Patty Wagon, we're gonna put you in the patty wagon. And every ha that was a a negative connotation for Irish people back in the day. Indian giver, things like that, that people don't even think about until the person for whom that implied that is targeted towards is, comes back and they're stunned or they feel hurt by you. Why would he say that? And that. So there's lots of things that people don't realize that they're saying. and it's gonna take a minute. Yeah. So what does someone do if they're trying to do the right thing? They're trying to create an inclusive environment. And, but they've done it wrong and they didn't get it right. What I mean, is it better just. It, leave it as it is, don't mess with it. Or, you could make it worse. Or, what advice would you give to people who, maybe said something and then it dawns on them that wasn't the right thing to say? It's an apology. It's. It. There was a lady in my office and I was talking to her the other day and I called her. I called her Amy, the other lady in her group. Amy is Asian. She's Asian, and I had been talking to her for a few minutes, I realized, oh my goodness, this is not this woman's name. Oh my gosh. To just slink away implies that you'll have to get over it. But I stopped, and I am so sorry. That's not your name. Your name is Kim. I am so sorry she was okay with it, whatever, but at, but I made the mistake. I owe her the apology. If somebody steal something or does something, then go to somebody and say, this is what happened the other day. I'm, I hope you weren't offended. That was not my intention. That's all you can say. You don't, you can't speak for them. You should get over it. You should be all right. That was not my intention. I don't wanna do anything to hurt your feelings or make you feel uncomfortable. My apologies. And then again, the power of silence. Walk away if they wanna say something else they can for the. short apology is your best bet. Thank you. That's super helpful. It's all very different now, so Yes. It's good to, to get some advice on that. And I'm also curious you did diversity training in 2000, 2001. and you just recently did four days of d e I training. for for a group that you work. How has the message changed and what are some of the key takeaways that are things you want people to know today? It is so incredibly different in the past 20 years. It's stunningly different. At first, if we were talking about race and gender, a little bit about sexual orientation, though, people didn't want to talk too much about that. that's as far as it got. You would talk about what you can't say and you can't say racial epithets and things like that, that you should and shouldn't say. But now it's much more, it's so broad where it's the pronouns that you have to think about and. that things are on the spectrum of gender. You can be a really girly, girly girl, or you could be somebody who's got a more masculine approach to life and still being female. It's, there are, there's all those elements to consider. There's culture, it's holidays. used to 20 years ago, people thought nothing of, we have Christmas off at our companies and that's it. I don't celebrate Christmas. What am I supposed to do now? I'm Jewish. What about Han? It's the, it's expansive to the point of being a little scary for everyone where people want to. Celebrate their difference, but they also still wanna fit in. So it's back and forth for everybody. So as you're talking about diversity what now? I think we're at awareness. We don't, I don't think that the culture of America or the culture of the world is that we have a solution. We don't have a solution. We have awareness. And awareness can be a little overwhelming but necessary to understand that these are the things you have to consider. You can't just decide that this person who was born as a male is going to have to deal with the fact, I'm gonna call you. He, whether you want it or not. I So you know, we have to accept and we have to learn to accept the differe. Of people. It's not just what we are used to. It's not about you. That's great. It's hard. It's different and it is hard. So do you have another piece of advice, maybe you could offer one last piece of advice for our viewers that you think they should know or think about? I do a lot. With business image, and this is another thing that's gotten to be, it's a big change over the last two years, It was starting to become more casual before that, but now all beds are off, and as people are coming back into the offices, even if it's on a hybrid system and even sometimes over. There's a professional level you still need to achieve because you are in a bus. I'm just talking about work stuff. Now you're in a business environment. If you had gone, if you were at the office and they said, let's all meet in the meeting room, would you really be naked? Yeah, And I say that it sounds facetious, but I've had more than a few people call me and say, you please you. Could you say this to somebody? naked t-shirts that say something that's frightening across the front. Hair, not corn. What's in the background? People have had all sorts of things that from x-rated to dangerous in, in the background. You're sitting there and people are listening to you and looking at what is that on their wall. It's all these sorts of things that we have to think about, but how you present in your workspace, whether. Virtually or face-to-face matters because it speaks to your judgment. So do you look like you could see a customer? Do you look like you should leave a team? Do you look like you know what you're talking about? And that goes. Through a whole spectrum of things. If you are on the IT team and you're going to be installing equipment and things like that, and you show up in a three piece suit, people are worried, where are you going? This is not what the job requires. Conversely, you're in the office and you've got customers to see and you've got the distressed. And a Grateful dead t-shirt and 14 earrings and purple hair Because now no one's listening to you. They're looking at this outfit. Yeah. And you could have the cure for cancer. You could be laying out the cure for cancer and nobody's. because they're trying to figure why is your hair like that? and adults do that because that's how the adult brain works. That's great advice. All right, so before we wrap up, I wanna do a little lightning round uhoh with you so that our viewers can learn a little bit more about you. So my first question is, what is your favorite hotel that you would love to return to? Oh, There is a hotel in Santa Fe, New Mexico that has a spa. It's in the, it's in the hills. It's beautiful, and I have completely forgotten the name. I thought about it this morning at six. And now it's gone. It'll come back to you with the moment that you need it. And do you have a bucket list hotel? A hotel that you hope to stay at one day? There's a group of hotels overseas called the Smith Hotels, and I have one of my best friends and her husband travel extensively and they go to Smith Hotels and they're all boutique. And they're, the service is lovely. The views are beautiful. The rooms are lovely. It's just the, it's a whole atmosphere. And she comes back and she sends pictures. Thanks a lot, Oh, man. They're beautiful. They're absolutely beautiful. And it's a ho it's hotels that really go that extra mile and do something that's different. You can get the regular cookie cutter. Yep. They are there so that you can feel comfortable. If you're at this hotel in DC or Tulsa or Venezuela, you're gonna get the same thing. But the boutique hotels are just, the Smith Hotels. All right. All right. I'm adding that to my list. What is your favorite movie? It's such a girl. you've got mail. That is a good movie. It's happy. No one's ever hurt. It's just cheerful. There you go. Favorite band or artist? My favorite. I have two artists that I love. have an artist have been in, my sister and I have been in art school from the age of four, and I love portraits and things and pictures of. Kaindi who did the he did president Obama's portrait for the Portrait Gallery. His work is beautiful. I love him, and I like Mc Escher. Mc Escher was an artist from the twenties, 1920s, thirties, and pencil drawings. And he has the one where you have the hand, drawing the other hand, I love Mc. That's wonderful. That's wonderful. And what is your idea of a perfect day? Whew family in, food ordered. Just we, my sister, my daughter and I do game. And we have a ball just laughing now. My, my grandson who's nine now, has joined in, so he plays along with us and we had about 20 people here with game night over the holidays. And it was, and then you're just gonna stand back and say, this is really wonderful. That was a wonderful day. that will stay with me. That's a wonderful thing to look forward to. And I'm hoping we'll all be back together at the holidays again this year. we all missed that recently. All right thank you so much, Sylvia. I really appreciate your time and you're just such a wealth of knowledge and and just to share your perspective, I really appreci. Your time and your time. Thank you very much for inviting me. This has been a lot of fun. Thank you. All right. Take care.