Dr. Jeffrey O epitomizes the incredible career path which the hospitality industry provides - from front desk agent to CEO. He shares why he felt he had a knack for leadership early on and how overcoming his hesitancy to delegate has been a main focus of his leadership development. He talks about why giving back is so fundamental to his mission, why diversity matters, and the importance of mentorship. And, he makes an exclusive offer to listeners of DEI Advisors for access to complimentary public speaking resources.
Dr. Jeffrey O epitomizes the incredible career path which the hospitality industry provides - from front desk agent to CEO. He shares why he felt he had a knack for leadership early on and how overcoming his hesitancy to delegate has been a main focus of his leadership development. He talks about why giving back is so fundamental to his mission, why diversity matters, and the importance of mentorship. And, he makes an exclusive offer to listeners of DEI Advisors for access to complimentary public speaking resources.
I am Rachel Humphrey with d e I advisors. We are an Arizona nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering personal success in the hospitality industry, and I am delighted to welcome to the show today, Dr. Jeffrey O, who's the c e O of St. Justine Hotels and the president of the International Hospitality Institute. And if you don't know more about him than. Then I encourage you to go over to d e i advisors.org and check out his bio. But today, please help me welcome to the show, Dr. Jeffrey.
Dr. Jeffrey O:Thank you, Rachel. I appreciate your finding time to catch up and looking forward to a great conversation. Thank you.
Rachel Humphrey:Absolutely. One of my favorite things about the hospitality industry is how incredibly unique each of our paths to leadership can be. There is no one straight check the box path from A to B. And so I'm hoping you can take a couple minutes and just tell us about your personal journey and how you got to the various roles that you hold.
Dr. Jeffrey O:Yeah. Thank you. And that's an excellent question, Rachel. My journey started years and years ago. I'm going to try not to date myself. And I started working in in a hotel. It was actually a married property as a front desk agent, and I just stumbled into into hospitality and I worked as a front desk agent and eventually was promoted to NI audit manager and then front desk manager, and then moved on to AGM and gm and then went corporate to. VP of operations, divisional vice president of operations c o and c e o. It's been an interesting journey. I love interacting with people. I love mitten people. I love the entire engagement piece, and I can't imagine doing anything else. I'm not very good at a lot of things. This is something I think I'm fairly good at and I just fell into it. I fell in love with it and I can't think of a better profession that I could have got into. So really excited and blessed to be in your hospitality industry.
Rachel Humphrey:What an exciting message too. Both coming through all of the different roles, but so many different responsibilities and learning so many different aspects of the industry. And we'll definitely cover some of those as we continue talking a little bit today. One of the things when we talk about leadership, there are some people who say, I never expected to be in a. Role in my career, I would be one of those. And then there are others that said, you know what? I felt early on that I was really destined or destined to be a leader. Can you talk a little bit about which category maybe you fall into, if it was from early on, what was it about it? If not, was there maybe a pivotal moment where you realized that leadership could be in your future?
Dr. Jeffrey O:That's a great question. I can't say I've had that asked of me before. So it's a great one. I don't know that I work when I was, growing up I thought, I'm in natural leader and I'm going to lead people and I'm going to do all of this things. I didn't think of that. I think at some point, Working in the corporate world, at some point I found myself in roles that involve responsibility, leading teams and chasing goals. And I taught, I think I can do well at this. And I really developed my leadership burn or muscle, if you can call it that, by constantly reading about leadership, learning from people who have more experience than I have, or way smarter than I could ever be reading about their journey, studying their stories, and trying to. You knowle some information out of that would enhance my, enhance me as a person. So I think I've been in a very receptive mode when it comes to leadership. I don't think you could possibly know all that there is to know about leadership. There are more books written on leadership than there, than any other subject. It's just, So many topics. I've written a couple myself and published a couple. It's such a vast world. I did my PhD studies and leadership. It's very vast. There are so many aspects to it. So I didn't grow up thinking I was going to be a leader and I was going to do all of the things I've been very fortunate and privileged to achieve. But at some point in my career, while working in different position, I realized I needed to keep developing myself, learning how to be a better and a more effective leader, a more compassionate leader. And I just kept working at it and learning from people who are more smarter than me. And I think eventually, I just kept moving up progre, progressing into different roles, with more and more responsibility. And that's just what my journey has.
Rachel Humphrey:We hear that from so many leaders nowadays that this idea of curiosity or continuous growth or wanting to learn more or emulate others is such a big part of their path. That's a great segue actually, to developing new skills, as we. Advance through our career. Sometimes we encounter a skill that we didn't realize would be so important for us as a leader, and we really need to go out and fine tune it or even develop it from scratch. Or if we can't, we need to surround ourselves with other executives who really possess this strong skill. Have. Have there been any examples that you found along the way where you said, you know what? I stumbled on something and I realized that was not a strong set of mine, and I set out to develop it some more.
Dr. Jeffrey O:I think my biggest challenge as a leader has been really delegating. That's a hackney concept. People talk about that quite often. Oh, I need to get better. I need to learn how to delegate. But in my case, it really is true. It's not just saying it, people say that quite often. I interview, leaders who say that to me, oh, I need to get better delegating. And I'm telling you for me, is actually the case. I, I have. I was horrible at delegating and a lot of that I think has to do with arrogance. I think I was arrogant because I thought I could do it all. I was arrogant. I thought, I don't need anyone. I didn't trust anyone. I didn't trust people as much as I should have to get the task accomplished. I always thought, if I do it myself, then I'm going to get it done and I'm going to do it right. And to me, that's his feeling of leadership. And I was not aware of that when I was touching my career as a front office manager. I work ridiculous hours, I. I could barely get my work done cause I tried to do my work, plus the work that should have been delegated to other folks. I was a poor leader and I didn't even know it. It took me a while to wake up and say, Jeffrey, you don't have to do all this. You're not the smartest person on the planet. You're not even the smartest person in the company. You're not the smartest person in the room. Quite often there are people who are way smarter than you. Learn from them, exchange information with them, let their reciprocity, do all of that and you're going to be a better leader for it. So it took a lot of searching and introspection to get to that point. That has been my biggest weakness, being able to delegate, being able to know that I can do it all. I don't know it all, and trust other people to deliver the. I'm getting better at it. I'm much better now than I was years and years ago. So that's been it is been a learning experience for me. I think it's a continuous process. Even now. I have to watch myself and say, okay, you know what? Stop, let someone else do that. You don't have to do that. You don't have to respond to every email. You don't have to follow up on every item. Item that requires follow up. I'm a work in progress. I'm much, much better than I used to be, but I can't tell you that I'm absolutely where I need to be, so I'm still working on it.
Rachel Humphrey:I love that answer so much, and I really appreciate your sharing that. I think that's something that you and I probably have in common mine was a combination of, I know I'll get it done and I'll get it done how I want to get it done, but it was also feeling guilty about asking others to put, add something else to their plate. People are so busy everywhere that I was like, oh, I feel terribly asking, and it became very difficult. But you're right, as you start doing, And you build trust and you have success and positive results, it becomes easier and easier to do. But I can really appreciate that very much. One of the things that I love to do is to share with our audience why I have asked someone to join us as a guest. On d e I advisors because in some way I have felt that they've really impacted my career and or the hospitality industry. As I shared with you earlier, you're the first guest that I have interviewed that I have not met before, although we have tried several times. Absolutely. Yes. And I really wanted to share that. One of the things with the International Hospitality Institute that I am so grateful for and so proud of is the celebration of the amazing people in our industry. There are so many people working so hard for so many other people wanting to bring about great change, wanting to see our industry thrive, and we don't often take time to celebrate, to say thank you, to say good job, to say We recognize what you're doing. And so what I h I is doing has really been, in my view, a game changer for the industry of taking a little bit of time each year to say thank you for all that you do for hospitality. And so I will say to you here, Thank you for all that you do for hospitality through I h I. But I also wanna tie that into specifically getting involved with boards, associations, and nonprofits because so many great leaders, not just about giving back, but really talk about leadership skills that they have developed. Through these additional roles that they have had at various points in their careers. Can you talk a little bit about why it's so important for you to participate in these additional endeavors? Cuz you've got a full-time day job. A couple of them actually. And maybe some of the leadership skills that you've learned through those channels that have been different from, in maybe the for-profit corporate world.
Dr. Jeffrey O:What a great question. I had an interview not long ago, I think it was with Media Magazine. And the gentleman who interviewed me asked me a question that I don't often get and that was a very in, intriguing question, much like what you're asking me now. And he said to me, can you tell me about something that you've done for anyone or a group that did not benefit you in any way? Something that you did that did not benefit you? How have you served your community? How have you done positive? Good, good work. That did not benefit you and I a question you don't get very often, right? Yeah, and I have to think for a minute. I'm already thinking. I know. I was thankful for the fact that I could answer that question because of the activities I've been involved in. One of my old time favorite quotes is by Horrors man, the great American educator, and he said, you should be ashamed to die unless you've done something good for human. Oh wow. Yeah, and that's so critically important to me in terms of building a legacy, making a positive change, being a force for good in people's lives, not mely being a biological band. It was so mission is to eat, drink, and sleep, and grow through life without impacting someone else's life positively. This is usually important to me and a lot of the things I'm involved in. Things that are squarely aligned with my values, we've been able to give back. I h i thanks to mention, what you said about I hhi is our mission really to do all of those things for the hospitality industry. We're not doing it to make money, we make money in other ways, but a lot what we do is premised on service, on giving back, on recognizing the people who are toiling every day on Sing on Song. So that is really important to us to be able to give back, to recognize all of these. People like you and so many other folks have done so much for our industry. Working, tirelessly to advance the industry that we love so much that was battered by Covid 19. It is great to be able to bring a smile to someone's face in any way that we, that you possibly, we possibly can. So that's really important to me to be part of that. And as you speak, I've got a couple of global Hospitality magazine, which we published. You can see, we recognize folks who are doing great things and it's our mission and it's been our mission, to continue to do those things and really shine the. Of hospitality. So I've been involved in many organizations that are providing, Services to the industry, not only hospitality to people, c communities, service, all kinds of things. I recently took over as chairman chair chair. I guess I don't really like that term too much, but it's okay. It's what it is, right? Sounds super pretentious, but I recently took over as Chair of the Hotel is Guild based in Lagano Logano teaching of Switzerland, where I work with some really amazing people who are doing a lot of things and one of the great programs we currently. Carrying out in the hotel is Guild is providing a scholar. Scholarship opportunities to people from countries that are really struggling financially. People who don't have the means to go, get a higher education. And we're bringing these students, these folks into Europe and providing pathways for them to get a university degree. We've already sponsored many students and we've got many more students and we sponsor and we going, we sponsoring going forward. So programs like that are very much of interest to me. What I HHI is doing is very much of interest to. It's very difficult juggling what I am doing as send Justine and also juggling I h I. We're currently looking to recruit A C E O, who's going to take over from it? We've not identified someone yet, but that is usually important to me to be able to give back to our industry, to be able to help in any little way that we possibly can. And and I appreciate taking the time to cool that out. That's been your mission as well. I know that for a fact and that's why I'm a big fan of the work that you do, that d EI advisors do. Thank you.
Rachel Humphrey:Thank you so much for that. And we are very grateful both on the scholarship side. Like I said, the recognition side, it's so critically important for our industry. And with that comes the opportunity to both be mentored and be a champion for someone else but also to be a mentee along the way. Have there been people in your path, in your career specific or generally who have really served as a great champion for you and where do you see the. Of mentors and champions in the hospitality industry?
Dr. Jeffrey O:Yeah, mentoring is a huge part. Should be a huge part of our industry. There's an organization in the UK that's doing some really great work. It's called oto. I'm going to mention them because they've done such great work and I was recognized by them last year. I received an award from them for my mentoring. Very important. I have people reach out to me on a daily basis. People that I know, people who've never even met me, they reach out to me for advice through LinkedIn, they connect with me and say, I just wanna pick your brain about this. I want to buy a hotel. How do I get started? I want to work in the industry. I want to transition from food and beverage to rooms. What do I do? And I take time to connect with these folks. I make our time, 10 minutes, five minutes, 20 minutes of my. People I don't know. And when they hear this interview, they're going to say, yeah, I've taken time to do that. I continue to do that. So I have been a mentor to many people and I've had many folks mentor to me. My colleague I sent, Justine has been a great mentor and role model. He and I, our conversations are always so enriching. This is someone who's a legend who's done so much for the industry very passionate. He, em embodies the spirit of hospitality that we're talking about. It's a true evangelist for hospitality and he gets it right, and many other folks, A gentleman I worked with called Son Zara, just an absolute amazing mentor of mine. I reach out to him for advice. I call him and. Mr. Serai, how do I handle this? What do I do about this? What do you think of that? And he always makes our time to talk to me. So I've been very blessed. I've got many mentors. I can't possibly mention all of them. And I've also been a mentor to many others. And I mentioned Ello because they are doing the kind of work. Now I have incredible respectful, and as the reason I mentioned them on the, on this show on this podcast because they're doing really great work supporting people who need to be mentored in our industry. And of course, I mentioned the Hotel is Guild, which I'm, chairman of the academy of Art. So it's, there are companies and entities who. Really playing an active role in improving the lives of people in their spheres and their communities, in their companies. And I and I'm just very fortunate to have been able to interact with some of these folks, including the ones that I just mentioned.
Rachel Humphrey:Your passion for an enthusiasm for mentor certainly comes through in listening to you talk about that and certainly appreciate your taking so much time to field and spend time with all of the people reaching out to connect with you. That's such an important part of giving back, as you mentioned, which is a big part of your commitment as well. Pivoting a little bit to another challenge that people identify as one of the biggest obstacles that they feel like impacts their path to leadership as public speaking. And we talk a lot about maybe conference speaking, but certainly public speaking can be one-on-one with your manager. It can be at a staff meeting, it can be in a small group setting. And then of course the giant conferences that you and I both speak pretty regularly at. Have you always been comfortable public speaking? Do you have. A preparation that you go through, how do you get yourself ready to speak? And did it always come naturally for you?
Dr. Jeffrey O:Yes, it has come naturally. Me, I can't seem to shut up. My biggest challenge is not being able to speak, is learning when to shut up. So my wife tells me that quite often. She says, okay, Jeffrey, I got it. I got it. Stop, please. So I try not to bore people's senseless, admire rambling, but I, I love to talk, which is how I got into Speechs. I love people. I love to talk, I love to present. I don't do a lot of preparation because I do a ton of calls. I do a lot of, speaking. So I do it so often. It's not something I need. Get revved up for, because I do it very often, but I always say I'm actually written a guide on public speaking. If there's anyone listening who's interested in in in, in, in getting that access to that course we can actually, I h I can actually offer that course to them at no charge. If they're listening and they want to take advantage of it. If they mention d e i advisors in responding to this interview when it's posted, we'll give them free access to the course. I wrote on public speaking, there are many tricks to being a great public speaker, and I have dealt with, c-suite leaders, senior leaders, and given them a few tips that I've, picked up along the way on public speaking. So there's so many ways to, it is different from different people. It all depends on what the individuals issue, right? There are people who are not comfort. With their voices. There are people who struggle with their appearance when they come out in public to speak. There are folks who have got nervous ticks, right? They can't, it's still, they're fidgety. They're doing all kinds of things because they're nervous. There are so many ways that one can approach that issue, but it's a, I thought I've got enough time here for it, but I think what I was in terms of, what might help people get better public speaking for folks who are looking for that, what I will say is this quite often. We are in our own heads when it comes to speaking in public. We are thinking too much. We are thinking about what we are about to do, and is it thinking? Is that constant thinking that paralyzes people who struggle with public speaking? If you are approach public speaking, just like you're talking to your relative, your long lost friend, your mom, your dad, your brother, your sister, you're not going to have any apprehensions about speaking in public. But when you are constantly thinking about what you're going to do and your fear of how you're going to perform, you're having. Real that's going through your head, this loop that's going in before you even do the swick. It's like you're already losing the battle before you're on stage. So the key to not think about it, don't think about it, don't dwell on it, prepare the points that you're going to talk about. Have them in your mind. If you need to have some talking points like an index card, you could use that. You need that. If not, go through what you need to go through mentally. But don't think too hard about it. Pretend or say to yourself, I'm going to be speaking to a room of people who love me. They absolutely adore me. They love me, and they can't wait to hear me speak. I am among friends. I'm among friends, and I'm going to tell my story to my friends. They're going to love listening to me. They're going to love interacting with me. This is going to be great. I am going to. It's really pro, essentially programming yourself and putting yourself in that zone and not thinking too much about what you're going to do. Not dwelling on it, not playing that loop all day and all night thinking, oh my God. Just go with it. So there are many specific steps that I've got in my training course I put together, which I think is about. 33 keys or something of public speaking that I would encourage anyone who's interested and I h i, can offer that. We usually charge for it. But this particular, because I'm talking to you on the d e I advisors podcast, I'm trying out the offer. There's someone who's interested. I have my team at I h I set them up and it can hopefully benefit from it. I wave waive the fee and not going to get charged. I charged for Course, and I think that might be useful to some folks. So anyway, just wanted to
Rachel Humphrey:put that out there. Thank you very much. We appreciate that tremendously, and that's great advice. I have not heard it described that way, but I really like that. I think that I'm very comfortable public speaking. I certainly get nervous enough, but I like the idea of being your own personal hype squad, trying to get yourself, everybody wants to be there listening to you, so I'm gonna try that the next time.
Dr. Jeffrey O:Absolutely it works. Believe me. I'll back to you on that one. It works. Believe me.
Rachel Humphrey:One of the things that we hear about from most leaders is that hospitality might be different from some other industries on how critically important relationship building and networking is, whether it is to close a deal, to get a new opportunity to find a mentor. The sky is really the limit. What, but not all of us. Network the same way. As a matter of fact you and I probably do not network in similar ways at all. Yet we may end up with very similar networks. At the end of the day, what is your personal strategy? How have you tailored it really to your character and to your character traits? And how would you recommend others who maybe are a little bit apprehensive about building their own network? Really take the first step towards that.
Dr. Jeffrey O:I think the key is to not take a transactional approach to networking, right? Don't go in thinking, I'm going to talk to 30 people today. I'm going to speak to 30 people who are potential clients, who will be potential clients of customers, potentially investors and all of that. Don't take your transac transactional approach to networking. Let it be organic. Go out and talk to people, talk to as many people as you can and spend time with them. I have been in certain environments where I felt like networking was like speed dating. Someone comes to, Hey Jeffrey, how are you? I'm John. Hey. Hey. Okay, have a good day. On to Rachel. Hey Richard. Hey. It's what is this? We're not building a relationship. You're just walking around collecting business card. And collecting business cards is not the same as building a relationship. Building a meaningful relationship entails you getting to know me, me getting to know you, even in the 10, 15, 5, 8 minutes that you and I connect. That's what building a relationship is about. Having a memorable counter is not simply asking for my, my business card. So I think don't be transactional in networking and don't network it. Only people that you think you can get something. In other words, talk to as many people as you can because you never know who knows someone. Who might be the person you're looking to connect with? Could be an investor, it could be a mentor, it could be a client, it could be a customer. So be flexible and don't be transactional in your approach because when you come across like someone who's simply trying to get something out of that network, and in that moment people are going to be turned off. I want people, I want to feel that a person I'm talking to is genuinely interested in me. I don't want'em to see. As a potential business partner or investor or customer or client, I don't want to feel like you're trying to sell me something and I'm going to be very quick on mention LinkedIn. I get a lot of people reach out to me on LinkedIn. They connect with me on LinkedIn. And the very next message I get from them is, Hey Jeffrey, we want to sell you X, Y, Z. And I'm thinking, I don't even know you. You don't know me. You know nothing about me. You haven't tried to engage with me. You're trying to sell me something. On the very first, first message that you send to me after we connected, people, buy from people that they know, people that they trust. If I don't know you, you are a totally stranger my inbox. What are the chances of you being able to sell me anything? So network. But do not be intentional, but do not be transactional. Just go ahead and talk to people, make the process organic, but don't do it because you're trying to get something out of it in that moment. That's been my approach.
Rachel Humphrey:That's such great advice. Thank you very much for sharing that. And the LinkedIn example is a perfect example of that. I wanna switch gears some to something a little bit broader for a second. There's so much talk right now about building a more diverse industry at the leadership level and certainly a lot of the initiatives that you're involved with. A lot that I am in d e I advisors is. Is governed and we're seeing a lot of momentum. We're seeing some change. Can you share a little bit about what you think maybe some of the stumbling blocks have been leading up to now, and then what you are seeing from all of your engagement in the industry about where change is coming from or how we're gonna see greater change, maybe a little bit faster in the industry?
Dr. Jeffrey O:Yeah. I think there has been improvement in terms of level of diversity that you find in our industry. I can't speak for the. The entire world, obviously specific to hospitality, I think we've seen a movement toward more diversity, a movement toward that. We know entirely what we need to be yet, but we know what we need, what we used to be, there is a growing awareness that, okay, we need to be more diverse. We need to have more women at the table making a leadership decision. Decisions? No, because it's it should not be something that's cosmetic. It should not be for Shell, we should do it because it's the right thing to do. Period. People have talked about, send Justine and they say, oh, you guys are very, your board is very diverse. It's very diviv diverse and that was intentional. That's how the word is. We should reflect what the word around us looks like. So I think we are getting better at diversity. We now, we need to be, but we now, we used to be, we're making progress, we're getting more women in leadership roles, more minorities in, in, in leadership roles. All of that is getting done for me, it just makes sense and I can't imagine a company not wanting to. Diverse, people from diverse background and cultures of, different gender. Who look different or, just different in, in different ways. So I think it's one that is very much needed in our industry and I'm glad to have an entity like d e i advisors, focused on that. I know you do a law offense. It's not just about diversity. That's not all you do, but it's good to see you talk about diversity. I think it's conversation that we should be having this type of conversations. You will only make the hospitality industry.
Rachel Humphrey:And as you mentioned with the St. Justine board, you are actually practicing what you're preaching and that's so important to see and looking for others to follow suit. I have enjoyed so much getting a chance to talk to you. As I mentioned, we have not had a chance to visit. In the past and getting to know you a little bit more, but we are gonna run short on time. So I wanna wrap up with two of my favorite questions. One is what advice you would give to 21 year old Jeffrey. And the reason I've always loved this question is I think we are all works in progress and I think reflection is a really important part of our own development and of our own growth. As we sit here today, thinking about what you've accomplished, what you've had a part in, what would you tell your 21 year old self?
Dr. Jeffrey O:Very easy. Don't be so arrogant. Don't be so arrogant. The word does not around you. And let other people speak, learn from other people. And let other people do the work too. You can't do it all yourself because you don't know it all. And don't be so arrogant and let other people speak cuz the only one who has some knowledge and that's really what it would be, wow.
Rachel Humphrey:Coming back to the thoughts on delegating and learning different leadership skills For sure. Yeah. And then finally, I just wanna wrap up. You know that d e i advisors motto is empowering personal success. So I'm curious if there is you've shared a lot of insights, a lot of lessons you've learned along the way. Do you have a final piece of advice that you would offer to our listeners?
Dr. Jeffrey O:There's so many things that we could talk about. I think I would just say that We should focus on building a legacy. When we go through life, we need to think about how can we build a legacy? What are we going to be remembered for? What are we, how are we going to touch other people's lives in meaningful ways? What are we going to be remembered for? I think if we get into what I call the legacy mindset and allow that to govern a law of our actions, the word is going to be a better place. What is the word going to be when we are gone? What are, what's the word going to think of us? What is the legacy that we live behind? What lies are we have? We touched? What have we done has impacted humanity and that's I think is so critically important. Now we look beyond ourselves and look at the world that we live in and think about how we can impact that world positively and have a legacy that's deeply entrenched that people are going to remember remark on. I think that is so critically important. I, if you don't mind, I mentioning this, MLK said the most urgent and persistent question of our time is. What are you doing for others, right? I remember that quote. That's the most persistent and urgent question of our times of our time. What are you doing for others? We need to be able to answer that question, and if we can't answer that question on any given day, our work is not done. Our work is not finished.
Rachel Humphrey:Wow, what an incredible way to end our time together. And certainly a perfect segue into thank you so much for what you do, for others, for our industry, for so many people in it. It is not unnoticed and I'm very personally appreciative and I know as an industry we are as well. And thank you for supporting the mission of d e I advisors and spending a little bit of time with us today.
Dr. Jeffrey O:Thank you Rachel. You're very kind. I appreciate the time and thank you so much. Have a lovely rest of the,
Rachel Humphrey:Thank you so much and to our listeners, thank you as always for tuning in. We hope you have enjoyed what you have heard today and that you'll visit us at d e i advisors.org to hear from the nearly 100 hospitality industry leaders who have shared. Their paths to leadership and tremendous journeys and insights that they have learned along the way. Again, you'll find that at d e i advisors.org. You can also stream d e i advisors on your favorite podcast streaming channel. So Dr. Jeffrey o thank you so much again, and thank you to thank you for tuning in.
Dr. Jeffrey O:Thank you. Bye.