Jin explains why he would advise his younger self not to chase the money and the reason he always keeps a framed picture of the Lollipop of Mediocrity on his desk. He shares the 4 things critical to his career development, and how he benefits from discussions with the women leaders on his team, who often bring different perspectives. He also explains how his champions have furthered his career and discusses why lunch and dinner meetings have enhanced his network.
Jin explains why he would advise his younger self not to chase the money and the reason he always keeps a framed picture of the Lollipop of Mediocrity on his desk. He shares the 4 things critical to his career development, and how he benefits from discussions with the women leaders on his team, who often bring different perspectives. He also explains how his champions have furthered his career and discusses why lunch and dinner meetings have enhanced his network.
Hello and welcome to D E I Advisors. My name is Lan Elliot, on behalf of d e I Advisors, which is an Arizona nonprofit dedicated to empowering personal success. And today I'm really delighted to have my good friend Jin Lee, join us as our guest advisor and Jen. Is the CEO of ARA US Hospitality Trust, which is a publicly traded reit that's listed on the Singapore Exchange that focuses on US select service product. So welcome, Jin.
Jin Lee:Thank you.
Lan Elliott:Jin, I'm fortunate that we've known each other for many years, and I know you've had a really interesting career journey. Can you share some of the inflection points of your successful career with our audience and maybe if there are a factor or a few factors that contributed to your success?
Jin Lee:Yeah I don't know if I would say that I'm successful, but certainly have had a journey. I think the interesting inflection point. I had the privilege of getting laid off on my first job. I graduated from Cornell in the winter in December. That was in 2001. So that was the start of the Persian Gulf War. And I had a job to go work for height and. Had everything happen.
Lan Elliott:1991. I'm dating you.
Jin Lee:Oh, 1991. Did I say two, one? Yes. I'd like to have that. Yeah. I'd like to be the younger self, but 1991 started the first Persian Gulf War. I was supposed start a management intern program in San Francisco. And two weeks before I was supposed to start, I got laid off. That was obviously a setback for me, but eventually got a job working in opening the Ritz Carlton Hotel in San Francisco and working for Ritz Carlton for a couple of years. And then I moved onto working for Suzanne Mellon at HVS. And the reason why I mentioned Suzanne specifically is because not only was she one of my earlier bosses, but I considered Suzanne also to be a mentor because she taught me a lot about managing people. She taught me a lot about what a good leader is like, and I really just pushed me I remember I, every time I thought I achieved, suzanne gently knocked me back down a couple of rungs on that ladder and knowing that I would continue to keep coming up. She was a great mentor for myself and, also gave me a different perspective on things because again, she was a woman in the, a very male dominated world. Her perspective. And just her approach to business taught me a lot of things and that I still use today.
Lan Elliott:Yeah, I've admired her since, since I graduated from school around the same time as you. And, yeah. And we've ha we've been lucky to have her on d e i advisors as well. She's got an incredible career.
Jin Lee:Yeah. So the other inflection points would actually be the opposites of Suzanne. I've actually had the privilege of working for some horrible bosses and basically. Horrible bosses help you learn what not to do or help you think about the perspective of, yeah, I don't wanna treat someone else this way in the future. In a way horrible bosses in, in, in your life. They do happen and no one is happy going through it at that time, but they do. Those were also teaching moments for. And helped shape again, the type of person I wanted to be, the type of leader I wanted to be, the type of manager, I wanted to be the people. And I think the third kind of large point for me was working for myself. So 2015 I left getting a paycheck and hung out my own shingle and opened up a consult. We've both been there and you find out a lot about yourself. You find out things that you are able to do and what you've been relying on other people to do for you. It is not something that I would consider something to do solo. But it's also you. You always hear this, you learn about who your friends are. You learn about the importance of staying networked and engaging in networking and it, it's a world where a lot of the life seems to be a quid pro quo. People are looking for, Hey, can I gain something out of this relationship? And I think the part of it is instead of disdain people for thinking that. I think it's important to understand that people naturally do think that way. And then thinking about what you provide and the value you provide and why, they should be an part of your network or, you are part of their network is for the value you provide as a whole. So not necessarily a specific skillset, although some people have stayed in touch with me. I think solely for certain knowledge and the industry background is also important, but in networking, good bosses, bad bosses and then having a litany of different work experiences. I, something that I, I. Advocate for younger people is to, is this concept of, building your resume. The first 10 years of your life, you're unlikely to find the dream job that you're going to be in forever. Some people are fortunate that they do, but for the most of us it's getting that diversity of experience which is important. Yeah,
Lan Elliott:I know you're also a great teacher of the people on your team. I do believe your nickname has been the professor in the past. Jen, let's talk a little bit about career development. Were there certain skills that you decided to hone that you thought, these are things I need to know to increase my opportunities for?
Jin Lee:Yes. I think one of the key things is because my what I primarily deal with is finance and finance related matters, right? Real estate investments those kind of things. Really important is knowing how to read financial statements. And being adept at that because, financial statements are really the language of what we're dealing with. And I can't tell you how many people, I've actually been surprised that didn't understand financial statements that were somehow involved in real estate or real estate finance. Knowing how financial statements work, knowing the gritty details I think it's really important to know how financial statements are built and really. Be able to understand how they work and how also to spot things that might not be proper. So knowing financial statements is really important for me from communications also I remember being an undergrad and having to do those communication classes and thinking to. Oh, just not really into it. And really an opportunity lost, I think. I wish I would apply myself more earlier on, but written and oral communication, really that's so important. I think. If you can't articulate what you are trying to say that's a stumbling block. If you can't. Concisely and precisely and grammatically one of the worst things and does show it, you can't help but think is this person, does the person care? And also you do question I hate saying it, but intelligence. If you find people. Can't put sentences together. We use poor grammar or misspellings, et cetera. Having very precise written and oral communication skills is very important. In part of the career development I had considered working for Wall Street earlier in my career and trying to make that pivot I also distinctly remember being told that I was gonna, X salary, but not y and it was the same position, but because my qualifications were different I would've made y and instead of x because the key differential was I didn't have an m MBA at that time. I did eventually get my mba, but, and I also declined that job because I, they weren't valuing me as a person, but more as a list. But again, I understood that's policy and that's the way larger companies look at you. So I also wanted to make sure that getting an mba you hear stories about a lot of people who are success, wildly successful with just an undergraduate degree and there. Tons of successful people in that way. But b I think if you can get it and I would do it because it's just one of those extra check marks that people do have for you. And you certainly don't want to in, in the competitive environment. You don't want to lose out to someone who has one in versus someone who does not have because unfortunately people do. At your stats before they look at you as a person. The other last thing I think for career development is to be well-read. It's if decide on an industry or decide on specific career path it's important for you to be very well versed in that industry. And that means. That means reading up on, on anything and everything that you can. And I guess younger generations sometimes my son, watches a lot of videos, but they're associated with the, his field of study he studies marine biology. But my point is you constantly need to be in, in a state of self-educating and knowing the latest trends, knowing the issues at hand. If you're gonna really make a.
Lan Elliott:Do you have a favorite resource you go to? That's your
Jin Lee:No, and I don't know if there's a favorite resource. I try to read a lot of different things. I, I obviously read the press, I read. I read a lot of the analyst reports that come out on the industry. Just it's. Hunting around for a lot of stuff. I was recently on the A H L A site reading articles on a topic I was interested in. Anywhere and everywhere, but the key is that they're out there and to just make sure that you're reading them and it's also books read good books and read books and. Help you think? Daniel Kahneman's thinking Fast and Slow was a long read, but it was a very insightful read. Obviously people have read by now The Black Swan books and, the mass tibs things. But trying to get into the minds of like really good critical thinkers is also important.
Lan Elliott:That's great advice. Thank you for the tips on those books. Let's talk a little bit about approach to challenges and how you approach obstacles generally. Do you have something that you first do when you wanna process it? What do you look for first? What do you do first and how do you motivate your team when they're tackling a challenge?
Jin Lee:Yeah. I think the word that comes to mind immediately is to be circums. And what I mean by that is we think about action reaction. We think immediately what am I thinking about? And we, I think the world seems to reward people for quick decisive action, but the reality is, especially in business, is to look it. So much of what we do, particularly in real estate and real estate transactions, it's not really a win-lose scenario. What you're always trying to find is a win-win. You, and certainly you don't wanna be on the lose side of a win-lose scenario, but I think for me, when we look at these types of challenges that either come in a deal or as we're run operating hotels or asset managing hotels We do invariably get stagged on chall, certain challenges. The key really is to try to see it from all angles and understand all the different arguments that are being made. It's really just saying, thinking a pause, thinking about things first, and then speaking your mind about what your situation is or what your stance is on this situation. And. You have to mull it over a lot. You have to, so you also have to give yourself time to step away and think. Going on walks, exercising smoking a cigar whatever it might be, is to give yourself time to contemplate, to meditate and ruminate on this challenge or problem that, that you have. And, Also really important to then find people you trust, whether it's your coworkers or a mentor or a friend, and discuss the issue, brainstorm and think about what's the solution here. I, I've, and you know that some people are always gonna be grounded and you have people who provide. A different perspec perspective because of their their field of expertise. So whether it's your lawyers or, consultant. The other thing that's been very helpful to me is women coworkers and this in what I'm trying to say, is a lot of times men I think, perceive a challenge or a problem. In a certain way, and I can't tell you how many times, it's been tremendously helpful to find a female perspective on it because I think women just are, think diff, think differently more creatively and more cooperatively and you know much more about this win-win versus the win-lose. I've benefited a lot from female executives that have. With me, at same company or I've had, lawyers who are females, but even in my current company Lisa Swain, who is our head of asset management, great resource, just like talk things out with her, and we come up with issues and we can sometimes add to each other's way of thinking or come in, coming up with kind of new approaches and to. Tackle the challenges. Sometimes we have the same idea,
Lan Elliott:but I love what you said there, there were so many good parts to that, including not taking action first. Taking a beat to think about it. I love the idea about taking a walk or going and changing your geography your space to think differently. I know when I've had really big challenges and the answers are not, I just need to give it time and usually it comes to me over time, but I also love the idea of talking to people and people who have different perspectives from you can be super
Jin Lee:helpful. Yeah, absolutely. For that.
Lan Elliott:Along those lines, in order to be able to talk to people with different perspectives is developing a network. And I know that can be very uncomfortable for a lot of people thinking about it that way, but if we think about the hospitality business, it is really a relationship business. People tend to find this industry and stay in it for a long time. So the great thing is you get to see people again and again. How have you built your network in a way that's comfortable for.
Jin Lee:I think the first thing is always being myself. Being authentic, being genuine in your desire to be someone's friend or, part of their network or have them part of your network. It's a lot of it has to just be it has to. You almost have to ask to be friends. You, it's, you can't expect people to come find you. You have to ask. And I think culturally for me, one of the best things to do about being friends and, this land is eating together. I try purposely to schedule lunch meetings or dinner meetings. I know some people have this idea that it shouldn't. Business with this, but I think, US culture is highly acceptable, obviously to have lunch meetings or dinner meetings. But I think the aspect of breaking bread, of sharing a glass of wine or, that goes a long way in terms of it's not just a cold conference room, it's. Eating together really basically means someone's gonna give you an hour to two hours of their time to spend together. And so to me i, I u I like using that avenue. And then when you're there, it's important not to just stuff your mouth, but also it's important to share and also to be vulnerable. No one likes. Talk to someone who has all the answers, doesn't stop talking or doesn't really lead on to anything else except superficial conversation. Really sharing about yourself and knowing that showcasing that you're a human being is super important. And then, Sometimes we do a great job of all that in finding someone. And then what we don't do is we don't maintain or manage that relationship. And that's hard. It's hard to do because I have, obviously I have a network that spans not only the US but it's global because I work for an Asian company. So you actually have to. Ways and make the time to stay in touch and build on the relationship. That means it's not just social network, it's not social media, but it's what I try to do is make carve out time when I travel to certain cities to visit on those people that, that are in those cities. If I can't be in those cities, find a way to try to connect with people. But it is a purposeful. Call, and sometimes it's just a phone call. It's, sometimes it's a phone call not a text, phone call. Works wonders, but you need to maintain a, you can't just build a relationship and then it'll stay there. It needs to be maintained and ongoing. And then what you'll find is over time, some people will not reciprocate or, it will. Not as, not on the forefront of your network, but it's still important not to lose touch of people because then people also rebound. And we're also trying to think about, again, I try to think about who they are. We spend a lot of time getting to know one another so we then, it's just a function of it, it's I have a database in my head that says, Hey, look, I, if I have. Issue with this. Who do I, I have four people I can talk to. And and and people fulfill different needs in your network. It's not all about just information and resources, but it's just some people are just really fun to be with and just a pleasure to be with. And that's also very good for you. Some people are extraordinary. Networkers themselves, and they'll introduce it to other people. So it's just important to have kind of a diverse mix of people and that's effectively what the network really stands for.
Lan Elliott:A lot of really great advice in there. I love when I'm going to a town, I'm traveling. I go, who? Who lives there? Who can we get together with? Who who can I go see? Yeah. Switching gears a little bit to talk about mentors and champions. How have your mentors and champions helped advance your career, and how important is it to do that? How does one go about doing it? Oh,
Jin Lee:I can't say enough. I'm super important to have mentors and also to tell them that they are your mentor. I've asked people to be my mentor. I've told them that like I regard you as my mentor and that, I think, Korean culture. There, there is this something called But it's like the older and the younger, right? The, I think in Japanese. But mentorship is super important because you are really gaining from the wisdom and these, and the kind of the lead that person has in their life. And how important have they been? I wouldn't have gotten certain jobs. Were not for these mentors saying, that's a good guy. That's the good person. That's the person you're looking for. So
Lan Elliott:yeah, actually a champion, even beyond just being a mentor, giving you advice, they actually put forward your name and recommended you for opportunities.
Jin Lee:Yeah and in this world that's, we have, indeed.com, we have all these like head hunters and such. Even, I've been involved in, with head hunters calling on me, but the person that's gonna make or break things are people who act as your mentor or champion. And I've had the benefit of, when I was in the private equity business again made friends with a lot of my limited partners, and those people have been great. They set me up for my consulting. In terms of driving clients towards me again, help me solve issues that I even have today. Having people who like you think highly of you and are willing to stake their reputation for you is something that absolutely needed as part of your network. And it's also something that, as I've got older other people are asking me now to do that for. And very happy to do that for people that I really feel strongly about and have, really believe in them. And that's, and when I do that, I know that goes a long way.
Lan Elliott:Yeah. That's wonderful. And to be able to give back to the next generation as well. Yes. I wanted to jump to leadership style because you've said that your leadership style has two defining elements, integrity and humility. Can you share more about that?
Jin Lee:Yeah. Integrity simply just means to me, doing what's right, honest, and just in every aspect of my job. It's doing. What do you do when you, no one is watching. It's the whole concept of integrity is paramount in building trust and ile amongst, your team members. It also sets the tone for corporate culture. So one of the good things about good thing about being a CEO is, and building this team was it allowed me to talk about corporate culture and think about that in, in a very purposeful way. My consultancy, if you remember land, it was called Probity Investors. And people were always like, probity what's probity? But probity is an old English word, basically means integrity. To me, very big. Value for me is this whole integrity part. And it really comes down to, in this world of how you. Capital is really commodity. Yes, Blackstone can raise 30 billion in their fund, but for the most part, there's a lot of capital out there. But reputation is your differentiator. And if you have a reputation for being a high integrity person that means a lot. The second aspect is humility. And humility is really I see it as like a posture. If I'm humble, if I always believe that there's someone smarter, someone better, it allows me then to be in the posture of learning. It allows me to be a constant learner. If I'm arrogant, then I don't have anything to learn or anything else to know, and no, no one can give me anything. If I'm humble and I maintain that posture, then it allows me to be that constant learner. It allows me to share and collaborate with people. And you have to truly believe that your own knowledge is limited and somewhat in, in ways, and you don't have all the answers. And then you then, and that you could actually benefit from sharing ideas and learning from other people. And that builds upon, everyone's collective knowledge. So those two for me have been with my team here, they know that I'm always gonna tell the truth, right? Even if it's ugly, even if it's not something that's great. They also know in my company that I'm not the man with all the answers, that I'm looking to other people to help me, and I'm looking to learn from them because everyone comes not only with their own skill sets, but also their own life back. And such. And when you bring all that together and you accept it and you want it, and you look for it, then people know that it's a safe place, right? It's a place where people can shine and show off a little bit, but also know that The guy that's leading the charge is not, a big a-hole. Yeah.
Lan Elliott:It's important and it factors in how people decide where they wanna work. Yes. So I think that's really important and it creates a really inclusive workplace when people feel like their input is valued and sought. So I, I think that's, I think that's wonderful. So another aspect of your leadership that I wanted to touch on, because Jen, although we've spent a lot of time eating great food, usually that you've cooked great Korean food and a lot of red wine I've never actually been to your office, but I understand in your office you have a framed drawing that you've had in every office that you have and the drawing says, beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you suck forever. Oh, there it is. Yeah, there it is. Yep. All right, excellent. Tell me more about that and why that's been in every office.
Jin Lee:Yeah. It's actually in, in, when I was working in consulting in the nineties I happened to be an Aspen and I happened upon this. And, it struck me as Yeah, exactly. And I like the humor in it, but and for some reason it's always, I've w every office I've been in, I've put it up and then I noticed that people who work for me, Kept on staring at it, and then they would recite it and and then when they would talk about me and such it is, it's a memorable little quote, but it really, it's a humorous way of basically saying, don't settle. If you just if you say, yeah, it's adequate or good enough, but it's not your best. Then it's that, life slippery slope of then, that's why it says, licked once and you'll suck forever. Because that's, and that's, it's just a reminder of just constantly try. I'm already a type A personality. I'm a bit ooc. I had a Korean mother. So these are things that it is just always, look, if you're gonna do something, do it your best, give it your best effort, and know in your heart that you've given it your best effort may not be the best, but as long as you've given it your best. That's really what's important. And look as at this stage in my life, I know when people are. Giving me not their best when they're not really trying that hard or just going through the motions. And that's somewhat disheartening. But I've learned that, look, ev everyone has that, but it also gives you an opportunity to then think about, Hey you're typically better than this is something else going on, right? And it gives you an opportunity to then explore what. Or it's sometimes I've found people like, Hey, I've been doing this, but this is not really what I wanna be doing anymore. Sure. Let's talk about transitions. We can make other things that we can find you to do. But again, it's one of my own mantras is this constant, pushing and pushing because. If you're not gonna give it your all then why show up in the first place is how I think about it.
Lan Elliott:Yeah. I think it's very indicative of you always wanting to be pushing to be better and go to the next level. Do 110% always. If it's worth doing, do it. Do it right.
Jin Lee:Yeah, and I think one, one quote was, if you think about Jim Collins who wrote the book, good to. And that's one of the things he said is he actually says, good is the enemy of Great. Another way to look at it. Yeah. Yeah.
Lan Elliott:Not as memorable, but Yeah. But similar message. Yes. Jen, I've known you a long time, but I actually wanna ask, looking back now, what advice would you give to your younger self?
Jin Lee:Oh, Don't chase the money. That's great advice. Yeah, that's really great advice. Don't chase the money. Look, I've and money not only just like salary wise, but it's also title, right? So there are times I've made the choice to go after the offer with the higher pay and the the bigger title and But really wasn't comfortable with the group or the person I was gonna work for. And I knew it at that time making that decision. The, it like instinctively I knew that this, and, this is my exposure with these horrible bosses. I knew. The Korean word is they, we talk about, it's called and it's like the kind of the the brightness in your eyes or the how you look, but there's a lot of. People that I'd like to look, we're on this video call, but when I meet people, I like to look at them in their eyes. I'd like to, when we speak you and you notice when we speak we look at each other. I look at, I can't tell you how many times I've spoken with people who will avoid eye contact. Constantly looking around, looking at other places, but avoiding eye contact. So there's a lot to be said about, what someone's eyes, gateway to your soul, whatever you might wanna say. But I've had times where I've been looking at the person in the eye and going, I know there's gonna be a problem, but I was too seduced. The money I was gonna get or the title I was gonna add, or the power I was gonna have. And I think my advice to my younger self is, look, all these things will come in their own good time. But whenever I try to accelerate it or move faster by hopping onto opportunities with the wrong people that's been. Times where I've later on regretted it by saying, Ugh, I knew I was gonna be in this situation and here I am with these people. And so that's never good. The other key advice to the younger self is to surround yourself with different think. And I alluded to this earlier about having great being, supported by some great female executives. And look, we'd have meetings and first thing I would do, it was like, Hey, what did you hear in that meeting? What did you see? Because I was there in attendance and I saw everything from my perspective. It's really important to say, Hey, what did you see? And the people who had the best things to say were usually the women executives because they're like, yeah, I wouldn't trust that guy. They'd see immediately and they're like, yeah, I had this little vibe, but it wasn't that big. But they're like no. Total liar. And I'm like, okay, so we know how to keep guard. I think having. That kind of diversity of perspective is so important. One of the reasons why, again, what I like reading all sorts of stuff. I, I'll say I read the Wall Street Journal, but I'll also read the New York Times just because you can have more opposite opinions sometimes of the same news story, but I think it's important to engage your mind and to always think about the different perspectives. And, personally, I'm not like one side or the other. I sometimes say, Good point, but let me get the perspective from someone else or a different viewpoint and see if I also agree or there's things that I can pick up. And I think that's the key of having people with, from there are different than you from different backgrounds, different ethnicities, right? Different genders. Just people who are different will help you think differently and will also just enrich. The way you learn and the way you think about things.
Lan Elliott:I love that. Great advice. Jen, I knew we would run out of time, but we have time for one final question. Okay. Could you offer one last bit of advice for our audience, for people who are looking to advance their careers, perhaps women and underrepresented groups, what advice would you offer them?
Jin Lee:I think it's very much, Everything we just talked about. Seek out a great mentor. Keep networking. Be a self promoter. You have to know who you are and you have to be able to say, look, this is why I'm valuable. You have to be genuine. You have to be authentic. And then ultimately you have to take care of your reputation. That means staying excellent. No lollipops of medio.
Lan Elliott:That's great advice. Thank you very much, Jen. I appreciate you being on. And for our audience, if you've enjoyed this interview with Gin Lee, I hope you will join us on our website, d e i advisors.org, where you can find interviews with other great hospitality leaders. And Jen, thank you once again. Really appreciate your time.
Jin Lee:Oh,