DEI Advisors Podcast

Dr. Kaye Chon, Dean and Chair Professor, Hong Kong Polytec University interviewed by David Kong

March 23, 2023 David Kong
DEI Advisors Podcast
Dr. Kaye Chon, Dean and Chair Professor, Hong Kong Polytec University interviewed by David Kong
Show Notes Transcript

Dr. Chon, Dean and Chair Professor of the School of Hotel and Tourism Management at Hong Kong Polytechnic University,  shares his career journey ascending to his current role and how he transformed the School of Hotel and Tourism Management at Hong Kong Polytechnic University. We discuss innovation, networking and dumping "head trash". Dr. Chon shares his thoughts on the most important qualities of a leader, and the habits that can help us become more effective. He also offers advice on mentorship and self-empowerment.

David Kong:

Greetings. I am David Kong, the founder and principal of D E I Advisors. We are a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering personal success. We are delighted to welcome Dr. Kaye Chon to our show today. Professor Chon is the dean, chair and water. And Wendy Kwok Family Foundation Professor of Hong Kong Polytechnic University's school of Hotel and Tourism Management. He has received numerous awards and accolades, including the United Nations World Tourism Organization's prestigious Ulysses Prize, which is often referred to as a Nobel Prize in Tourism. He has published over 200 papers in international journals and professional publications, and has authored or edited about a dozen books. Dr. Chon, welcome to the show.

Kaye Chon:

thank you. Thank you for having me.

David Kong:

I'm delighted to have you, Dr. Chon. Let's start with your career journey. I know you were educated in the United States. You received your bachelor, master's, and doctorate degrees here in the United States. You've also taught here at several universities. Can you tell us how you ascended to your current role and some of the key learnings along the way?

Kaye Chon:

Yes. I grew up in my dad, native country Korea. when I was about 16 years old. Somehow it look to me that a profession in hotel management would be something I would be interested in pursuing. And simply because I wanted to see the world. And of course it was days before Google or WI I was looking at World Map and I was curious, how many countries are they in the world? I started counting. and then I thought there were 114 members of United Nations at the time I thought they were, in my life, in my career, I want to see Atlas, maybe 100 of these countries. And I was thinking what the profession could lead me to pursue my aspirations. When I heard about hotel management, I thought, oh, this is something interest. Such studies were not available in Korea at the time, so I decided to go to US and then I pursued my degrees. And in between my bachelor's and masters and PhD, I also worked in the industry in various jobs in hotel industry. One for economic necessity to support myself, but also to gain more practical. I think looking back, it was such a very invaluable experience. Through this work in the industry. I was able to develop more insight and more empathy towards employees in industry, the issues people are facing, the issues, industry facing, and so on and so forth. So I think that was a very good found. In terms of forming my philosophy as an educator and also in managing our school, for example, often we, academics love to debate. One professor in engineering was asking me a question, I understand that in your school, in hotel and tourist management, all students have to. a six month of internship full-time. And also you don't admit any students for PhD without industry experience. And I said, yes, it's true because it's important for students to gain that hands-on experience. And in order to pursue a PhD, even though it is primarily for research and to teach, it is important for academics to have. Minimum industry exposure so they can relate what they teach with industry and so on and so forth. This professor looked at me and said, in my field in engineering, there are many excellent engineers who never had a field experience in construction site or in the factories, but they are brilliant engineers. They can be excellent professors. I said, we are talking about different industries. This is different industry actually. This kind of debate always comes around. Yesterday in our school, there was discussion about admission criteria for our PhD students. There was one faculty member who said, if we lower that industry experience a little bit, we could perhaps attract high caliber students from leading universities around the world. I said we have to debate about this. even if we cannot admin students from the top universities even if we can admin students from a little lesser universities, I think to me it's important for these candidates for PhD to have some solid industry experience. So this is one example. And also in managing people through my work in the industry, I realized that managing people is so important. I often face a situation many employees are leaving or changing jobs. Often they say that I got a better offer somewhere. But the real reason is because of their supervisors. They couldn't get along with their managers. That reminds me one management philosopher said that 90% of employees are not engaged is because the manage. Blows, I think So I think these are the very valuable lessons. I acquired through the field experience in the industry. And then I started teaching, and then I taught in three universities in the United States, and then last 23 years at Hong Kong.

David Kong:

Yeah. You were at U N L V, University of Houston and Virginia Tech, right?

Kaye Chon:

Yes. that's a, that's wonderful experience.

David Kong:

You've been at Hong Kong Polytech University now for 23 years. and many people would credit you for having transformed the school. It's rated the number one school in the world for five years in a row. It's simply phenomenal and we really appreciate your leadership and how you have transformed the school. Can you tell us your experience through it all?

Kaye Chon:

Yeah. As you said prior to coming Hong Kong, I was a professor at University Houston Hilton College of Hotel Management, one day head hunter for me about this position in Hong Kong. I said that I think maybe they might have thought that I'm from Hong Kong. In fact, I don't speak with the word of Chinese. That's how the conversation started, and I was not interested in making such. I moved to another place, but the former president of Hong Kong Polytech University, he personally got involved. He made several visits, personal visit to me, and one time he brought his wife to persuade my wife also. And among main things I was very intrigued to think about this because in. The perspective of Hotel Entro Industries development. I always say that there have been three stages of development. The first stage was European wave Italian Europe, like in hotel ENT endorsement school. The world's oldest school is e Hhl Los Angeles Hotel School, established in 1893. I. And long established. So they were leading the field of hostile management in many ways, professionalizing the field and setting the standard for the industry and so on and so forth. And then the pendulum moved to us with American Wave. Cornell Houston, U N L V and Florida and all these universities were leading hospital education, especially with American hospitalized businesses becoming more multi-units and multinational. So not only learning our professional skills, it was important to for students to acquire business. Skills, whether that's Strat management, marketing, finance, and human resources management, so on. So I think this American model of hospitality education was embrace more business into the practice of hospitality. Now our thinking that in looking at this perspective, I said that 21st century, a hospitality and tourist industry, the center of excellence or gravity would help to be in. with massive development of tourism. I was looking at, for example, the St. R data looking at all the new hotels under development around the world. Approximately 48% of such developments are taking place in Asia, obviously mostly in China, followed by India, Indi Indonesia, and so on, so forth. And we have seen also, The rise of income and cost of income, more travelers from Asia traveling around the world. So definitely the center is moving to Asia. Then why in Asia we don't have a school which would be compatible to l in Switzerland or Cornell or Houston in the United States. So that was my aspiration and so I came here. Then one thing I noticed when I came here was, things. One, when I was teaching in the United States or my own classmates when I was studying hotel management, if I pick any student in us, I ask a student, why you study hotel management? I know what they'll say, a common answers that I want to be gm. That's minimum. Often they think they can be a GM in five years, and you have to really tell them that it does work like that. You have to be more real. now, when I came to Hong Kong, our students are so brilliant because we have a very good secondary school education foundation, especially when it comes to quantitative skills. If a professor here is trying to explain mathematical equation and said, I want to explain this one more time. One student will raise hand and say, sir, we got it. Can we just move on? This is how the students are, but surprising. If I, or ask the same question, why do you study hotel management? I was surprised that common answer is, oh, after I graduate I want to get a job. So down to earth. So after you get a job all you want to do I hope I can be a manager there. You say, I hope I can be manager. After that, what are you going to do? I hope I can be a more senior manager. Now I begin to think about it. I think there are few reasons. Number one is the Asian education culture. In Asian culture, the virtue of modesty is very important. We teach our kids to be humble and modest. This one, another big reason is because they didn't see any role models in our industry. In fact I remember the year when I came Hong Kong, I made a court visit to every hotel g. Just to introduce myself, I was scratching my head. This is Hong Kong. Hong Kong social industry. Every gm 23 years ago was expat expats, mostly European, occasionally Americans, and also all male, whereas our students were a hundred percent local or Asians. And on top of that, in our school, 73% of students are female. Now if you are happy to be a female student, Hong Kong born, they saw double glass ceilings. I cannot go up because first I'm a woman. Second, I'm a local. So I started teach speaking about this in our industry about 13, 14 years ago. The first hotel in Hong Kong change was Peninsula. Peninsula, in a way, a face of Hong Kong's hotel. A Peninsula Hotel, which is now about nine years old. For the first time in history, 14 years ago, they installed a gm, was a local Hong Kong born female Chinese. I must say. That was a earth break news. And then I think since then, I think many owners and industry started looking at this differently. So I wanted to basically story short, I wanted to give this aspiration to our students to aim higher, have more confidence. One idea I brought here was to develop our own teaching and research hotel. So we did, so university was able to invest in building a 28 story building structure. There is a home for our school of Hotel indoor management that consist of 2062 room hotel with four restaurants and ballroom and all the facilities. And our school is inside a hotel. I must say that since we moved to this building, our students changed. They became more confident they have a higher aspirations. Not only, I think that also we saw greater diversity in our student. we used to have a hundred percent local students in the last census. When we look at our student profile, we have now students from 51 countries from every continent of the world. Often when I encounter students from Europe or Americas and ask them, what made you to come to Hong Kong to study often answer is that, I was told that Center of worth in hospital and tourism is in Asia. We have to learn how things operate in Asia. I think absolutely, I think they made the right choice. So this were the aspirations that brought me to Hong Kong, and we are very proud of what we have achieved in the last 23 years.

David Kong:

I'm just so impressed to hear everything that you said, having the foresight to see things in advance. Some people say the center of Univers is switching to Asia, and they might be right because look at the population and look at the many opportunities for development. And seeing the potential in the local folks, especially women, and cultivating them to become the leaders of our industry today and tomorrow. That is so admirable. Thank you so much for having that foresight. It must be gratifying to see the fruits of your labor at this point. The school is so well admired all over the world. We really appreciate your leadership. Thank you for Thank you. Everything that you've done

Kaye Chon:

well, it has been fun experience

David Kong:

no doubt. But I'm sure there were difficulties and challenges, and I'm keen to hear how you approach challenges in general.

Kaye Chon:

I think also there are main challenges, in any businesses including education. If you are in the position of administrator as manager there are some common denominators that is people, how you relate with people, in my case, my stakeholders students and faculty and staff industry. So I I think communication is very important in our school. I was able to also bring the faculty members collect the best talent from around world. We have about 80 some faculty members thrown from about 20 countries regions around the world. Very diverse. They all came with one purpose to, with the dream of establishing something different and cutting edge school of hotel and tourist management. Innovating. Innovating our. But then also I realized that wow when I was working in United States, for example, the, usually the relationship between the dean and faculty members tend to learn more informal. In fact, members will usually keep their doors open. You just walk into somebody's office and say, hello, how's your golf game last weekend? Have a friendly chat like this. When I came to Hong Kong, I meant to be friendly, making a visit to different faculty members. There was one junior local faculty member went to a more senior one and said, this new leader in our school came and he often come to my office. I don't know why he's keep coming to my office. Maybe it's coming to impact what I'm doing. When I heard it, I felt, oh, this is shocking, this different culture, so I shouldn't do that. I stopped doing, and then there's one European faculty member speaking to another European faculty member saying, this guy came a year ago, but he never bothered to come visit my office. Maybe he doesn't even know where my office is now one is complaining that I am investing when he is complaint. I'm not testing. What do I do? The lesson I learned is that, ah, you have to deal with different people in different. you have to customize the way of managing different members of faculty and also students. So these are the examples of lessons I learned. I believe in communication. So in the hotel, in our hotel I Icon building our school, part of the building consists of eight floors every day when I come to school, I have one goal despite how busy I am. I spend the time to walk through all eight, four. This is what I call management by walking around. Then when I walk around, I always have a chance to interact with our faculty, staff and students listen to what they're saying. And so I think this the philosophy of listening and communicating and also maintaining the communication with industry stakeholders is very, I. So these are many lessons. These are among the lessons I have learned in my 23 years

David Kong:

That's absolutely outstanding. One of my favorite books is, seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And one of the habits is Seek First to understand, and you just described how you try to understand people, how you try to understand the needs of the industry, how you try to understand the situations that were challenging. That is just superb. Thank you. Appreciate your sharing that advice. Now you are widely respected and regarded in the industry, not only in Asia, but throughout the world and you also know a lot of very important people. What is your advice on networking?

Kaye Chon:

I think networking, I think most important, I think currency is sincerity. I think there to be sincere and genuine. And then I think this is important that we always respect each other and be sincere. This is way and and second maintaining communication. And there are many ways we can now communicate. And go out and communicate. I think this are also important and I also try. Remember people, I think we all who coming from hostile industry have acquired that professional skills of, recognize people and remembering their names too, right? In our school we have approx approximately 150 employees that consists of professors, lecturers, and research staff and administrative staff, and so on and so forth. Often people. where our dean is the only person who knows everybody by first name, last name, and recognize their faces. And often students ask me, how do you remember the names? And then I was one of the like 100 students in class, but you always remember my name. I often. Jokingly say that my brain is empty. That's why I can store my more data But put aside a joke, I always say that I always make an effort to understand who they are. It is to me is part of my hospitality package, that's what I say. So I think that sincerity is very important.

David Kong:

I totally agree with you. I think sincerity is the foundation to any relationship. and talking about remembering people's names. I think it's so important. Do you have a special way that you try to remember people's names?

Kaye Chon:

No, not any particular ways. For example, when I receive business card, I actually study that business card and look at business card, who that person is, and then often I associate the image of the business card with the. So maybe that's one way, but students don't have business cards. I was still, I do remember and recognize many students names, so I think it's just interest, I'm interested in the person. Then I tend to remember, I, I

David Kong:

I think first and foremost it's the interest. If you really want to remember someone's name, you can. and your tip on association is also a good tip, and I try to do that too. Let's, talk about what you said earlier that some Asian women frequently short change themselves because of our culture, upbringing, whatever the reason is, and there's also this negative voice. And it's not only Asian women, it's a lot of people ho have this problem. It's the nagging little voice in your mind that's telling you that you're not good enough or you don't belong. I call that head trash. What's your advice on dealing with head trash?

Kaye Chon:

One book that really influenced my my life when I when I was a little 16 years old, I read a book. Livingston Seagull, a book by Richard Buck. This is a book about seagers talking to each other with Seagers who are born with limitations. I didn't know that. Seagers have bad eyesight, so they cannot fly at night. Their williamston are strong enough to fly high far away. There's one seagul whose name is Livingston, think. you know why these eagles can fly so high and so far, or what could I do to fly like an eagle? He makes endless efforts to make an effort to fly long and higher. And other cigarettes are looking at him and say, Jonathan, remember we are all seas is not eagles. You cannot do this. But he nonetheless, his choice. One day he was able to surpass this limitation. As I read this book as an adult, I think the message there is that we all have some self-imposed limitation. We have something called self consciousness, so we have to overcome that self-consciousness, selfimposed limitation. So I think it's important that we empower us that I often say to our students, The most important word in life is passion. If you are passionate for what you do, there are, there will be no excuse. We often say, I cannot do this because of this or because of that, but that because will disappear one by one if you have a passion for what you're doing.

David Kong:

I totally agree, if you have passion, you can overcome so many challenges and difficulties, and I love that story about the seagull. It's so inspiring. I'm gonna remember that Very good. Now, you've met a lot of very accomplished leaders in your time, and you must think about them. There are some qualities that we try to emulate. What are some of the most important qualities of a leader in your mind?

Kaye Chon:

I think there are many among main things among people I admire and learn. Often the ability to think out of box and also who how they create a vision. Have a foresight and create a vision and communicate that vision with their peers and then their coworkers, and then share the vision so everybody will endorse and support the vision. I think that's very important. Second. I think the philosophy of life is I often say that one important quality of leader is living with philosophy of make it better than when I found it. So for small things to life things because of you, the small department you are leading became better. And then when you have left the department, people. He was a leader who made our department better. So I think if we live with that philosophy and for little things to big things that's important. And then also another very important quality of leadership to me is the ability to see the big forest, but at the same time, small trees inside. I saw many, I worked with many managers, supervisors who are so good in looking at many details, but cannot see the big picture. And often they're called micromanagers because they cannot see. So I think that ability to see the forest, but also the trees inside, that's also very important. Quality as a. I absolutely love the three things that you talked about. is just so powerful to leave things in a better place. That's something that I try to remember all the time. If you take over a job, leave it in a better place. It's it's so important. And to be able to think out of a box and have a bold vision and be able to communicate that in such a powerful, inspiring way that others will feel passionate about your passion, about your vision. that is also such an important quality.

David Kong:

Absolutely love it. Thanks for sharing that. We talked about habits earlier. And there are so many habits that I admire that people have because the habits eventually become second nature to you when you become that person. And the seven habits of Highly Effective people, be proactive and think win-win, and sharpen the saw. These are such great habits. In your mind, what are some of the habits of highly successful people?

Kaye Chon:

I think determination is very important and for me as an example I get up at 6:00 AM I always get up at 6:00 AM I have body clock. This is either 6:00 AM you have to get up. Regardless where I stay why I get up at 6:00 AM is because I need to go to the gym the first thing in the morning. In all in my life, I always try to stay fit and healthy. But in the process of building our own hotel, it was an eight year process from conceiving the idea, communicating this idea, raising the fund, and then coming to open. It was a very long process that was the most stressful. I must say that I was so stressed in those days that when I, looking at my pictures, taking those days, I didn't look right because I was so stressed and I didn't have time for doing any exercise. And I said I have to really think about my schedule and still I couldn't find time for exercise. And I did conclusion, made a conclusion that there's a way we can, I can. If I reduce my sleeping hours, I used to get up at seven. I decided to get up at 6:00 AM and started running. Oh, I must, it was hard. One day when I opened the door St. Videos, the rain was pouring. I said good. Today is raining. The I cannot run. I can go back and sleep for one more hour. And then I thought, if it's raining. Why? I can't I run? I could run with umbrella. I did. And I started going to the gym and that became a habit. Ever since then, I go to gym. So when I stay in a hotel, I always ask where is your gym? What time does it open? By the way, I get so frustrated with this hotel. We say that our gym is on third floor, but opens only at eight o'clock in the morning or seven o'clock in the morning. Why? And because we don't have staff. Why you need to staff? This is our industry. They do not think about this. They just do it because it has been the way it has been run. So anyway, so I go to gym every morning regardless what time I go to sleep where I am staying. This is perhaps, this is one habit I have.

David Kong:

That is such an important habit though. I'm so glad that you are sharing this because I think self-care is one of the most important habits that we can all adopt because self-care is what gives you the strength and resilience to deal with all the challenges and difficulties and head trash that you might have in a day. And some people say self-care is selfish. I totally disagree. I think self care is just making sure you re refuel your lantern so you can continue to shine for other people. Such an important habit that you are sharing. I really appreciate that. Thank you. I see that we're coming to the end of the show. We are running out of time. I feel like I can talk to you forever, but unfortunately we're limited by time. Now, you've mentored a lot of people and a lot of successful, accomplished leaders in the industry happen to be your students at one point, and you've mentored them. What are the most important aspects of mentorship?

Kaye Chon:

Me as an educator in fact education is perhaps in my DNA because I'm a third generation professor in my family. Actually, my daughter is a university academic. In the fourth generation. I never thought about this. I just started teaching and doing research. I enjoyed certainly doing it. One day it occurred to me that my role is not necessarily just teaching and doing research is making a dream for next generation. So I start using the term that educator is a dream maker. We are making a dream for young people, then it is up to them. Once we plant that dream, they can, exercise and then they can aspire and achieve their aspirations. There are so many wonderful stories of how this philosophy influenced many of my students, and then it has been fun to see them, how they're transforming themselves, and then achieving their career aspirations or life aspirations. So it has been always nice to say. My most favorite quote I always share with students is that of Roosevelt who said that the future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams. So I tell my students that if you have a dream, you have to believe how beautiful that dream is and work toward. Work, step by step, and then the future will become yours. But if you don't do anything, that's only a dream. You wake up in the morning. Oh, last night I had a good dream, that's all. But I always tell my students that you have to have dream and you have to believe in it and then work toward that. So there has been always a philosophy of in my education and dealing with. So I want to see more students will be inspired and achieve their maximum potentials. That's wonderful.

David Kong:

I'm so pleased to hear you say that because to me, mentorship is also about empowering others to have bold dreams and to help them realize those streams. It is so wonderful to hear you say that. Thank you for sharing. One last question. What is your advice on self-empowerment?

Kaye Chon:

I think number one, I think we had need to continue to learn like in our industry. I often say that the hotel general manager who left the hotel 10 years ago come back to the same job, most likely, he or she will not be able to run that hotel because our hotel industry has transformed itself with all the digital changes, digital transformation with use of AI, robotics and big data analytics, all the things. These were not important changes years ago, but now so important. So I think number one, to empower ourself, we have to continue to learn. There are many ways we can learn. Many free online courses and many resources. So I have to, I think, dedicate our time, devote our time for learning new skills and keep abreast with what is happening in the industry. I think to me, that's very important.

David Kong:

Yeah, I agree with you too on that continuous learning. Very important. Because the world is changing so fast, we have to keep up. Thank you very much, Dr. Chon. I really appreciate your time. I know how busy you are and I'm so grateful that you've taken that time to share your wisdom with us. Your perspectives, learnings, advice, they're so valuable. Thank you.

Kaye Chon:

Appreciate your saying that. Thank you for having me. It has been a pleasure to talk with you. I hope to meet you in person in soon.

David Kong:

I hope that day comes very soon. And to our audience, if you enjoy the show, I hope you would join us on our website, d e i advisors start, or we hope to see you there.

Kaye Chon:

Thank you.