Based on Dr. Russen’s recent research on DEI in the hospitality industry, these distinguished professors from hospitality programs discuss the importance of first creating an inclusive culture, so diverse hires can add value and thrive in their new companies. They also discuss the need for individuals to establish a supportive network and become allies for others, and they encourage managers and leaders to remind themselves of the value of inclusion, because it is harder to run a diverse team - and to talk to their people.
Based on Dr. Russen’s recent research on DEI in the hospitality industry, these distinguished professors from hospitality programs discuss the importance of first creating an inclusive culture, so diverse hires can add value and thrive in their new companies. They also discuss the need for individuals to establish a supportive network and become allies for others, and they encourage managers and leaders to remind themselves of the value of inclusion, because it is harder to run a diverse team - and to talk to their people.
Hello and welcome to D E I Advisors. My name is Lan Elliot on behalf of D E I advisors, and today I'm really pleased to welcome two incredible women, Dr. Michelle Russen, who is the Assistant Professor of Hospitality Management at Cal State Bernadinos. I'm gonna read this. Jack H. Brown College of Business and Public Administration. And also Dr. Miranda Kitterlin- Lynch, an associate professor and Coca-Cola endowed professor at the Chaplain School of Hospitality and Tourism Management at Florida International University. Welcome ladies. Thank you for having
Michelle Russen:us. Yes, thank you.
Lan Elliott:Absolutely. So as professors at Hospitality Programs, you play a big role inspiring the next generation of hospitality leaders, and I know that you're both very interested in how D E I. Can make our industry stronger. And you recently co-authored a couple articles in H N and Hertel based on Michelle's research around d e i in the hospitality industry. So I'm really excited to dive into that and talk about it and how. What you've learned can help people be advance their careers more and also better lead their teams. But let's start with a little bit about your career journeys and how you got interested in d e i, de and I. Michelle, can you share a little bit about your
Michelle Russen:journey? Yeah, sure. Again, thanks for having us here today. My career started lot of other people's do. I started as a server when I was in college. I fell in love with the restaurant industry, though, unlike most people, and I spent 10 years in it. I worked my way up and I even switched my major to hospitality adminis. I started as a server and then worked my way up into bartending, bar supervising, and then I did a little in the kitchen, and then eventually I ended up being an AGM several years later. But when I became an agm, I was at an independent restaurant and the owner was very traditionalist. So I was lucky to make it to the AGM physician in general. But it was definitely an interesting table because it was me and a bunch of men, and I ended up hitting a ceiling, which is what gave me really a research interest in de n I. But also, and it didn't really hit me too hard at the time, although obviously the exclusion did when the guys were going out on Tuesday evenings and scheduled me off on purpose, so I didn't come. It was also. All white people sitting at the table, myself included. And our employees were probably 70% non-white So you can see just like this huge gap. And now it's even more abundantly clear to me what I experience in the industry now that I'm looking at de and I specifically as a researcher. So I just wanted to get into it, to even the playing field for everybody and try to really help industry not experience what I did with.
Lan Elliott:thank you. I think a lot of people might actually have a similar experience to what you had, so thank you for sharing that. Miranda, how about you? How did you, how did your career evolve and how did, how, I know you've had a long time interest in de and I. How did that come about? Yeah,
Miranda Kitterlin-Lynch:definitely. And my career path is very similar to Michelle's, except I started as a server in high school and. Stayed in the food and beverage industry, full service, food and beverage throughout all of my degrees, honestly. I guess it's a little bit more personal for me. I always enjoyed researching in this space because I do remember being the only w woman at the table. Definitely not a lot of color at the table, right? But this didn't really become a passion for me until I became the mother of two little girls. And as I look at them and as I look at my journey, yeah, I don't want them to have to go through the things that I went through. I want a better world for them. That's where it comes from for me.
Lan Elliott:That's wonderful motivation to see the next generation or generations have a different experience than maybe what the three of us have had. So d e i advisor's mission is to empower personal success. So what I'd love to do today is to frame our discussion around the key findings from Michelle's research, but also the recommendations based on that research. For women and underrepresented groups and in things they can do to advance their careers. And also advice for managers and leaders of women and underrepresented groups, or maybe if you don't manage a lot of those people you might in the future. And things they can do to create an inclusive workplace so that diverse people can thrive and create value for their companies once they, they join their companies. Michelle, why don't we start with your. Recent research and findings. In the hotelier article, you shared a really striking quote which kind of stopped me in my tracks when I read it. And I'm gonna read it here just to make sure I get it right. It said, if you were to look at other companies, the females are always in human resources because we're supposed to be the touchy feely kumbaya. I'm the C F O, but I'm also responsible for human resources. And as a female, I don't think that I'm getting paid what a male would be in my position. And I know, I read that quote, I thought, wow. And I know it was an early in your interview, interviews you were doing for your research, but it somewhat changed the traject trajectory of your study. Can you share a bit about what's driving that quote and how it impacted your study in the.
Michelle Russen:Yeah, absolutely. So again, this was something that when I was sitting there I was like, oh my gosh, yes. That's so true. So at this point in my study, I was actually doing something a lot smaller. I had come across a couple of studies at that had indicated women had shorter tenures in the top management team. Significantly by several years, about five years if I am remembering exactly right, but then once they got into the upper management Level, they were actually more likely to also be let go no matter how well that the company is performing compared to men. So at this point, I was just trying to figure out how to increase tenure for women because if we increase tenure, we'll probably increase representation too. But once I heard her say this, I'm like, wow, there's a lot more that about this than tenure. It's really about biases and stereotypes and there's just a lot. Going on. So what can we do to address that? Because then the byproduct will be increased tenure and increased representation. So this was really a moment where I started just, I went off script in my interviews and it. Bloomed into something fantastic from there,
Lan Elliott:That's amazing. And something we've heard before, and so I'm so glad that this woman said this to you and to be able to direct your research. Can you share based on the new point of view of your research, what some of the key findings
Michelle Russen:were? Yeah, absolutely. So we discussed three specific areas, and this is across all interviews with the 20 women. I was able to come in contact with who did make it into the industry. One key thing that they identified was remuneration. So not just. To pay and differences in the wages, but also benefits and development opportunities and recognition as well. They say, that these things are more prevalent for men than they are and there's just a gap in opportunity for women. then they also talked about differences in networking and mentoring and. Risky position. So this is also known as the glass cliff. It's a newer phenomenon. We all know the glass ceiling now, but the glass cliff is actually where women are appointed and underrepresented groups, not just women are appointed to positions to increase diversity. but they're given these positions where they're set up to fail that basically it's a savior effect where they're expected to pull off the impossible when no one else could do it. And then so then they end up being pushed out the organization or at least outta a management position and having to start over. It is, this is one of the things that I think is a real problem with our industry But this is one of the things that they were identifying as well, and that you almost have to take these risks in order to move up through your positions. So those are the three things that we've mainly found. But they also. Everything comes down to organizational practices, individual differences, and self-imposed barriers, because we are also thinking about our families and our additional careers, and are we willing to take those risks? A lot of us are saying, no, I don't wanna lose my job, so therefore I'm not going to try to take this promotion. And is that the right choice? I don't know but that's. That's where we stand. So we face women face challenges and barriers from multiple angles in the industry.
Lan Elliott:it's really helpful to understand some of those things that we experienced, but to actually put them and describe them is really helpful to understand. So based on that research and what your findings were, what is some of the advice that you have for women and underrepresented groups who want to advance their careers knowing that this is the backdrop, that some of them might be experie.
Michelle Russen:Yeah, of course. The good news is we did speak to women who have made it past all of these barriers, so it's possible. The first and main thing that they really identified was to network and establish a mentor. A couple of them specifically said, find a man who's willing to help you out. I personally believe that women can also be equally. Advocates for one another. But you have to find someone who's willing and able. I was at an organization at one point early in my management career before I was at the restaurant where I became the AGM and there was Queen B syndrome like no other. She not only was not willing to help me and help me learn, she was literally out to sabotage me. We have to make sure that we're not in that toxic kinda culture, and we as organizations are making sure that's not a problem. So find somebody who's willing to be your friend, a legitimate friend, not one who's manipulative and and help each other. So then The second thing that they said was to create a strategic plan and stick to it. So we really need to set up a list of goals. I dunno if anybody here has heard those smart goals or smart objectives, but it's kinda the basis. But make sure that you're setting these goals for yourselves and measuring that success and checking in with yourself to make sure you're making progress. It doesn't help to say, Hey, I wanna be the ceo, and then never actually take any steps to get. And then the third thing is be willing to take calculated risks. So this is not necessarily yes, saying yes to every single position, but saying yes to the ones that can probably be achieved and knowing that you will have to get To take some risks in order to keep going. One piece of advice that was given that really stuck with me is to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. So once you start getting comfortable, make sure that you're looking for that next step to remain uncomfortable and continue making progress.
Lan Elliott:Absolutely. It's a theme we've heard other leaders talk about is to get outside of your comfort zone and always be learning and growing and gain new experiences. So great advice that you got from the ladies you talked with. How about some advice for other people in the organization who want to be allies, who want to help women in un underrepresented groups? What's some advice for them?
Michelle Russen:Yeah. And that's a great question because it's what can other people do? And first is advocate. So find someone who you jive with, who's a good friend, who you see a little of yourself in no matter gender, race, ethnicity, background, whatever. Just find someone you. you jive with and become a partner or mentor and build each other up. The second I think would be to evaluate your own biases, especially if you're in a leadership position or aiming to be. So think of the ways that stereotypes might impact the way that you think. So is a woman of a childbearing age, does this influence the way that you think about the, her career progression? Do you believe women are flaky or emotional? Do you believe women should not be assertive or independent? Do you believe women should care for others? These are all these stereotypes that people don't even actually realize that they have a lot of the time, but they completely exist and they influence career trajectories for others around you. And the last thing I would say is be flexible. So this goes for anyone, I think, and especially the younger generations where we're getting into this type of diversity too. But be flexible on scheduling and understanding of alternate schedules, because a lot of times people want to be more involved with their family or their friends, or just life outside of work. We're really coming to appreciate work-life balance, so we need to make sure that we're flexible and enabling everyone to be included at the organiz.
Lan Elliott:that's great advice for people who wanna do something to help. And I've read it, if someone's in a company that isn't very inclusive, it only takes one ally to really make you feel differently about your job. So really great advice for people who are who, who want to do that for others. And it could be a man or a woman. It could be someone who's similar to you. It could be someone completely different than you. So I love that. Switching gears a little bit to what managers and leaders can do to help women in underrepresented groups. Most people have heard about the benefits of a diverse team and a diverse leader, and I think there is some momentum around hiring diverse. People onto teams right now. I've seen it more than I've ever, seen it in, in, in the, my 30 years in the industry. And so that, that is really encouraging. One of the things you wrote in your h N article was. Many in the industry do not fully understand the steps required to gain the full advantage of having a diverse workforce. According to a panel of 20 hotel managers, inclusion must first be established on many different levels to enable diversity. So that's a lot. Can you unpack that because it seems like you're saying is that what you need to do is create an inclusive. Place first before you hire diverse people, which everyone's doing the second part. So could you share a little bit about that and what that's actually saying.
Michelle Russen:Yeah, absolutely. And yes it is. That's a very it's a lot to say in one line here, in one sentence. But diversity without inclusion is really just a parade of people who look different without the ability to be different. So if we are not inclu, if we're not creating an inclusive culture where we value individual differences and we value people for those differences and alternate mindset. This actually helps with a lot of innovation if we do value these things. But if we don't, then these people with different backgrounds are. Just going to leave for somewhere that does actually value them or they're going to be required to assimilate to whatever the current norms and standards are. So we're not actually diverse at all for requiring assimilation. We are creating homogeny of a bunch of people who just look different from one another. So it's really important to establish an environment that values individual
Lan Elliott:differences First. Absolutely Miranda. Can we talk a little bit about what that means without an inclusive workplace? What are Michelle mentioned a few of them, but what are the challenges that new hires will face if they're diverse people coming into an organization that isn't inclusive?
Miranda Kitterlin-Lynch:That's super easy for anybody to understand. If you take it back to the playground, right? You got all the kids on the playground. If somebody is not being included in the fun and games what are they gonna do? They're not gonna stay on the playground. They're gonna wanna go home, right? They're gonna wanna leave, they're wanna go. They're gonna wanna go somewhere where they feel safe and valued, right? So just apply that to the workplace. We're all humans, from the time we're little to the time. are no longer so little. And we're all gonna have those same feelings. So within the workplace setting, in that context, they're not gonna stay. Nobody's gonna stay where they don't feel included. Because if they don't feel included, they don't feel valued. And at worst, they may feel hostility towards them because of that in lack of inclusion. Yeah.
Lan Elliott:and Miranda from the company side, what does that mean? You had mentioned that they're not going to stay. What are some of the consequences of not having, of bringing diverse people into a company that doesn't have an inclusive culture?
Miranda Kitterlin-Lynch:Not only are they're going to leave, but they're going to talk. And so that's going to make it even harder. Even if the company does try to improve, it's not going to make them attractive if they have a reputation for not being inclusive.
Lan Elliott:So it has, lasting effects beyond that. And I
Miranda Kitterlin-Lynch:guarantee you people talk, people are talking to each other. We have the ability to more than ever get as much information as we desire
Lan Elliott:about a workplace. Absolutely. And there are websites that do that, Glassdoor and others. And I do think the younger generation is much more apt to share their experiences in a, on the internet. I wanted to talk a little bit more along those lines of how to create an inclusive workplace and what that looks like. And Michelle, you write about an inclusive environment at all levels. What does that look like? If you're a manager or a leader at a company and you wanna inc create an inclusive culture, what are the things they should be thinking about?
Michelle Russen:Yeah, absolutely. As we were talking about a little bit earlier, women face barriers from multiple places. So from society at large, just like Miranda was just saying, back to the playground, right? We learn these things at a very young age. The way to think, the way to act, how people should be, keeping that in mind, we those things come into the way that we think in an organization. So that creates barriers based on our socialization. The organization also creates different barriers. And then with just our policies or procedures and our practices inside. And then we also often also, Barriers at the individual level. So these could be past self-imposed due to past experiences and the belief that, hey, if I wanna have a family, I can't be a good manager because that's the way that I've seen it in industry. That's the way people believe. So they just don't even try. So as an organization, we need to address it at each of these levels. To make sure that people feel valued and included. We can do we can take down those self-imposed barriers by adopting transformational leadership and adopting individualized development programs and training needs to make sure that what we're doing is bringing everyone together and sharing a vision where we're going to value these people. not despite be, not despite that they're different from us, but because they're different from us and that they've been through something different. We also should encourage teamwork because the more that we interact with someone who's different from us, the more empathetic we'll be towards them. We can trailer our training and development programs and. Do rewards that celebrates individual differences among our staff. We also need to review our own policies and procedures within the organization. Is there something that's inhibiting people from moving up like, Hey, it doesn't matter how well your performance is, but you have to be here 12 hours a day. We don't see you 12 hours a day, then you can't move up. That's one thing. But what happens if somebody can get done in eight hours? What somebody else can do in 12. So we just need to keep in mind our policies and practices if we're excluding people based on maybe a scheduling error or something else. You also need to question whether or not you have a culture that values differences or if you qu. Require assimilation into the organization. Of course, all organizations wanna find a good person who fits with them, but we also need to understand from an organizational level that difference is good and then it can keep us moving forward in the future. And then finally, we need to understand the role that society plays in the way that people think inside of our organization. So this is gonna be the hardest to address because it's not necessarily readily seen in a policy or practice. But what we can do is provide training on implicit biases. We can encourage active listening to counteract stereotypes and have meetings that that encourage this kind of interaction. and then we also need to check back and make sure that no one is feeling excluded because we're putting such a high emphasis on diversity. And I know that's a lot of, been a lot of issue and a lot of people have felt threatened and said, oh, I'll never move up again because. Women in underrepresented groups are going, or, prioritized, but we need to make sure that everybody feels like they have a voice and is heard and is valued. Because even no matter how much you look, it might look the same on the outside. We've all had a different story, there's a, I think that pretty much sums it
Lan Elliott:up, That's not a little, that's a lot to do, And just if you pick one thing as making sure that you know that diverse people have a voice, that everyone has a voice at the table, that takes time. And that's a skill that managers have to develop to be able to get people to contribute, who might hang back typically encourage their involvement. But it also means that when you have lots of. Points of view. You might have like the golden answer out there. Someone might actually have it who's not speaking up, but it also takes more to lead a diverse team, right? It's much easier if the boss comes in and says, this is what I think, does everyone agree? And then we all move in that direction. That's much faster. And hopefully you have the brightest boss in the world, but sometimes there are great ideas that are out there for people who are closer to the issues. But it does take a lot more time in management and it is more challenging than managing a homogeneous team. Yeah.
Michelle Russen:Yeah, absolutely. And it's one of those things where you want to do all these things and you might have all of these lofty goals that I just mentioned, but it's actually carrying it out. So my recommendation is pick one thing at a time. Little pieces, there's that, the old coqui, eat the elephant one bite at a time. I think that applies to inclusion as well, because it's a complete shift and it's not something that's gonna happen overnight. We can't expect it to happen overnight. We need to. Take active steps to make sure this gets implemented. and then keep checking in to make sure that it's, can I
Miranda Kitterlin-Lynch:add to what you said, Michelle? So I think that there's something really important to be said for the fact that it is hard. It is a hard thing to do. It's harder than to just go in and Like you said, run a less diverse team. But I think if you have that constant reminder, even if it has to be a Post-It note on your computer that says there is going to be value in this investment because just like you said about the golden answer, companies are not going to be as successful with only one set of ideas. Never ever will that ever be the case. When. understand the value of that time commitment, that investment, and how it's gonna pay off, not just for us at the individual paycheck level, but for our company and our industry as a whole. I think that is, I just think it's terrific
Lan Elliott:motivation. And that's really well said, Miranda. Thank you. Thank you for that. How, this is a lot of work. How do leaders create an inclusive workplace and an sure equitable treatment of leaders and employees? Is that hrs job? A lot of companies have hired a chief diversity officer or a similar role? Is that the solution? You hire someone and they'll fix it and then we're done and we can check the box and move on. Is that how it.
Miranda Kitterlin-Lynch:The, it doesn't sound reasonable to me to simply do just that. If you've got this huge problem, hiring one person to come in and fix it, I don't think is reasonable or I don't think it's realistic However, having that person is not going to hurt. In my opinion. Having that person leading the charge is not going to hurt. I think that you also have. talk to people in your company and find out how do they feel they are being treated? How do they feel that the person next to them is being treated right? So actually talk to your people and make it a safe place for them to share with you what they feel is going on. Because you may look down and say, oh, I've got a diversity policy, I've got a diversity officer. We're good. But how would you know if you're at the top all by yourself? I think that there's huge value in having those relationships and conversations, right? I think you also need to look at who is in your organization and do I have any thorns here that may be working against our efforts that maybe I don't want to keep here. And if it's a great person, if it's a great value add to your team, maybe they could benefit from some coaching or what, whatever it is that to help bring them over to the good side, what I believe to be the good side. If they're never gonna come over to the side, then maybe they don't need to be here. Because, if your value is an inclusive environment and somebody is working against that value, And that's not a popular thing to say, but it's very much a
Lan Elliott:reality. Yeah. When we all come with our biases, everyone has biases. They're not all bad biases. There's some biases, right? That help us get through life and do things you know better. When I go on the metro, I know to stand which door I like to stand on cuz I know it's gonna get me on the right escalator afterwards, right? So I have a bias. But everyone has different kinds of biases and they're natural for humans, but some of them do get to be barriers. And some of them, some of them are gender bio biases. And I love that you mentioned that it might not only be gender and race, it can be so many other things that make people feel excluded. Maybe they're a first generation college graduate in a company which has a lot of people who come. Families who've had university in their family for generations. And it just, you might not realize they feel excluded because of what's in their history. So I love the idea of expanding, who's included in underrepresented groups, cuz it could be for many different reasons that we haven't thought about typically. And also great strategies to try and help people and to help managers, to to better manage diverse teams. So as we start to come to the end of our session, I wonder if you could share some final advice Miranda, maybe if you could share advice for managers and PE and leaders of people. Something very practical and tactical that they can do today to start creating a more inclusive workplace.
Miranda Kitterlin-Lynch:Yeah and I think, honestly, that's just a recap of what Michelle and I have said. It's be intentional. Remind yourself of the value of putting, of this investment, of creating an inclusive environment. And Michelle said, take it one step at a time so that you don't become overwhelmed and throw your hands up in the air and talk to your people. Talk to your people.
Lan Elliott:That's great advice. Good advice. Michelle, what final advice would you offer to aspiring women in underrepresented groups to better prepare themselves for career advancement?
Michelle Russen:First and foremost stick together. There's truth in that. There's power in numbers and it helps just to have someone else who you connect with and you can just talk to. If you are finding that, hey, across all these different organizations, there's the same thing going on. Maybe have a voice about it. and then also make a friend in a higher position who can advocate for you. It can be in your own organization, it can be in your same industry. It can be someone in a CEO of a totally different company. It doesn't really matter. Just find someone who you can ask for advice because it really helps to have someone who has been through what you're going through. Even if the path is a little different, the ladder has different rungs. It still helps to have someone who has climbed their own ladder and can help. While you're climbing yours. And then lastly, don't get discouraged. Like you said earlier, we are having a lot of companies who do want diversity and there are a lot who are also trying to establish inclusion. It's just trying to figure it out right now just keep at it. We are making change. It's slow and it's steady, but hopefully steady. It seems like a little jerky right now, but hopefully we're just keeping making the progress in the right direction. And thank you so much for doing this because us just talking about it is letting me know we're still on the right track.
Lan Elliott:Thank you. Thank you. And thank you both. Really appreciate your time and your sharing your wonderful research and some great findings that maybe we haven't thought about so much. Making an inclusive workplace is a really great place to start. It doesn't have to start with hiring diverse candidates. And for our viewers, if you would like to check out other videos, you can go to our website, d e i advisors.org to see a number of other wonderful videos. And so thank you very much to our guests. Thank you, Miranda. Thank you, Michelle. Appreciate your
Michelle Russen:time. Thank you. Thank you.