As the first woman to lead PYR’s hospitality design practice in Chicago, Amy shares her journey, which began as a first-generation college student, and how leaning into discomfort and saying yes to opportunities has propelled her career. She shares how her network helps her to solve issues and explains how different mentors can come in and out of your life. Amy also provides insights on managing diverse teams and creating an inclusive culture, and why vulnerability can be an asset.
As the first woman to lead PYR’s hospitality design practice in Chicago, Amy shares her journey, which began as a first-generation college student, and how leaning into discomfort and saying yes to opportunities has propelled her career. She shares how her network helps her to solve issues and explains how different mentors can come in and out of your life. Amy also provides insights on managing diverse teams and creating an inclusive culture, and why vulnerability can be an asset.
Hello and welcome to D E I Advisors. My name is Lan Elliott On behalf of d e I advisors and today I'm really thrilled to have Amy Jakubowski as our guest. She is principal and managing director of P Y R. Which is an affiliate of Perkinson Will. And for those of you who aren't familiar with P Y R, they are a prestigious luxury design firm. Founded in Paris in 1979 with offices in Chicago and Paris and P y r has won many awards and worked on iconic designs of hotels like Four Seasons. Carlton's. Waldorf Astoria Peninsula, Intercontinental Hotels. So they get to do the really fun, luxurious properties around the world. And Amy is an award-winning designer in her own right who has worked on the design of the world's most luxurious hotels. She's also the first woman managing director at P Y R and is leading the Chicago Hospitality practice. So welcome.
Amy Jakubowski:Thank you. Thank you for having me today. Really appreciate that.
Lan Elliott:Absolutely. So Amy is a good friend, but what prompted me to invite her on the show was this fantastic article she wrote recently for H N, which is called Be the Author of Your Own Story. So I have a few quotes from that article that that I'll refer to because there was so much good information and I wanted to be able to dive into it today. So one of the things you talked about, Amy, is being a first generation college student, first person in your family to go to college. Can you share your journey and what were some of the factors that contributed to your success?
Amy Jakubowski:Sure. I'd be happy to. Yeah, as you noted, I was first generation college and it was very fascinating because I was always an artist. As a child, I always gravitated towards art. And in my mother's quest to make sure I had the best education, she connected me with mentors and advisors. And I learned about this Saturday course at f I t. I was one of those kids that said, okay, at 13 I'm gonna be a designer. I was influenced by a friend's father who was an architect, and I had this then advisor who brought me to a college that I went to on Saturdays during high school, which led me to teachers and I was so fascinated and intrigued by what I was learning. Then I made it a mission to go to that school. From there, I did a work study program and I needed a job to pay for college. That wasn't so easy. It wasn't a gift, it wasn't a given. And my work study, I worked for the Dean of Interior Design and he set me up with a job opportunity and I, next thing you know, I have this job. I worked at this job for 10 years, which led me to my 18 year stint with B G M. which led me on another journey across country to a smaller practice. And then Wilson and then this accumulation of characteristics and things that I've learned along the way brought me to p y r. There's so many, there's so many moments. I can dive into details if you want, but those were some of the pivotal each step took me to another person that led me to the next opportunity.
Lan Elliott:But you had to choose to stay or leave and go to the next opportunity and figure out who you wanted to work with and who was gonna further your career. Those were things you had to think about.
Amy Jakubowski:Oh, absolutely. The first job. You have to think about that all the time, right? My first job was fantastic. It was a smaller firm. It allowed me to do everything hands-on. I, pretty much took out the garbage too. But I did everything hands-on and it was wonderful. and I have surrounded by architects. So my insatiable curiosity I was. Filled by it, getting a lot of questions answered. And then from there I realized that there was a cap. When you work for a small firm, there's a cap and then you feel it, you know that moment when it's time to move on. And it led me to BBB gm. I went looking for that next opportunity to, and I knew I wanted to be in hotels and that's where I focused it on.
Lan Elliott:That's fantastic. You mentioned curiosity, and I've noticed a number of the leaders that we've had on our podcast have mentioned that their curiosity has led them to the next thing and finding their next opportunity, so I love that you mentioned that as well. I wanted to talk a little bit about something you mentioned, which is a great skill, is learning to lean into discomfort and discomfort with challenges makes way for new ideas. That's something that you wrote. How has that helped your career? Can you share an example of how you've done that?
Amy Jakubowski:I think there's always new opportunities, right? And I think as we develop in our career, we're also learning. And at the same time, you're not gonna step into every new assignment knowing everything. So right away you're gonna be uncomfortable tackling a new assignment or a new experience. And I've always been quick to say. Before I know what I'm doing and I'm like I'll figure it out along the way and so that's been, whether it be a good habit or a bad habit of mine, it's been something because I just believe that I'll figure out a way to do it. Yeah. And so it's been like that with every little assignment to the tune of it. It's a random moment in my career, but I was working on a big programming assignment for a brand new government building. I had never done that, and I was just like, okay, I could do it, is what I told everybody. And as we're packing up for the meeting and I'm like, would this be a good time to say That was my first time doing that. And it just floored everybody because you find a way to learn about it, right? Nobody knows everything. So be brave and just that's the discomfort I talk about. Try something new. Go out over your skis a little bit and just know that you'll find the right solution. That's great advice.
Lan Elliott:You've talked about women approaching leadership differently. Is, could you share an example of maybe of how women do that?
Amy Jakubowski:Yeah, I think as women we tend to, or we're categorized and maybe it's a truth or not and I'm sure there's scientific studies to this, we're deemed and we're seen as softer and more empathetic or more. Hum. Emotional is probably one of the words that we hear, right? But I think at the end of the day, people are people. And I think as long as that we're listening and we're understanding where they come from, because even as a woman, I probably come from a different perspective and understanding and viewpoint than you do. So I think it's really about listening to that person and understanding where they're coming from. One of the things like as you enter into this field, that's hard knocks. Being a designer is one thing, but it also puts us in a construction field. And so I find myself on construction sites and I've been on construction sites my whole career and I love it. And I'll never forget the time this big, burly guy was like in, earlier in my career, like yelling at me how do you do this? You didn't do this, you didn't write this down, you didn't. And he was going off and as I was listening to him, I. I know how to ask the question. I'm like, you're right. I didn't, and honestly, you are an expert at this. This is your craft and trade, and I would love for you to share some ideas on what you think is the best way to do this and teach me. And by the time I left that meeting, he had walked me through how to build an entire section and we were done And I learned something because I didn't know the answer and he was barking at me like I should. So rather than be afraid, I turned it around and asked a question and I learned a lot from it, and he got to teach and it was a really great experience.
Lan Elliott:You, yeah. You took something that was really a negative experience and by asking that question he had the opportunity to show you what he learned. And it probably was a great conversation, but by the time it was over which you both felt good about it in the end
Amy Jakubowski:oh, I was on my knees with the hammer at that point.
Lan Elliott:You've also said that receptivity compassion and a willingness to o admit what you don't know are also major strengths. And vulnerability can be an asset, but for people who are in male dominated fields, like if you work in construction or with construction people vulnerability isn't equality you regularly see in leaders. So can you share some advice for people who are in those sorts of fields and. If vulnerability is truly a strength and not a weakness how do you utilize that in a way that benefits you?
Amy Jakubowski:I think it's okay to be human. I think vulnerability gives us the ability to be seen and understood as human. And I think it does open the door for conversations to happen and it allows people, it makes you more approachable. So as a leader, I think you do wanna be approachable because unless you know what's really happening with your teens or unless they're able to come and talk to you, Then nothing gets done. It just festers there. But also as a leader, you have to instill confidence in them that they feel secure, they feel safe that you have some of the answers. So it's a delicate balance. You can't not know everything, but it's still okay on certain occasions to say, gosh, I don't know the answer. You know what? Let's look that up. Let's do that together. But always come back with an. I don't think vulnerability is an open-ended philosophy. I think it's just saying to somebody, look, I have to look that up too. I don't know everything. But not take away from keeping them comfortable on the fact that they're being led to a vision in the future or they're being led down the right path. So it's a daily juggle. It's not the easiest thing, but I would err on the idea of being human more occasions than marching the orders.
Lan Elliott:That's really great way of looking at it. Along those lines, one of the things we've talked about is something that's sometimes called the assertiveness double bind. Sometimes the likability trap and the double bind is in one of those situations where no matter what you do, there isn't a good answer. And so in this what I'm talking about is that women sometimes walk with this tightrope. I would say not sometimes, often walk this tight rope. you're too nice. You're not viewed as having leadership potential. if you're too assertive, you're not likable. And then that also impacts your influence and your ability to get promoted. So this is something you've had to navigate a lot. How? How do you do that? How do you strike that balance?
Amy Jakubowski:Navigated it my whole life. Some days it balances out and some days it doesn't. There are days where you have to just be assertive and yes, people might not like you for that. And then there are days where. you have to have compassion when somebody's coming to you with a human resources issue or a struggle. And I think there's the key of acceptance, right? I have to accept the fact. And I think as leaders we have to accept the fact that, you're not always gonna be popular. You're not always gonna be the favorite in the room. So I don't think we can approach it in a way. As women and as leaders, I don't think we can approach it in a way like I'm trying to be everybody's friend. you're trying to guide them in their career journey. You're trying to guide the business. You're trying to guide all of these big things. And I think you could do that with compassion and I think you have to trust yourself to know. That I'm making the right decision for the greater good, the greater whole of the group. And I might not be liked by a particular person because it's not what they wanted, but I, as a leader, have to look at my entire firm. I have to look at what my clients need, and I have to make those decisions, and I have to trust that I'm making the right decision with the information that I have at that. And be okay and be comfortable with the fact that you're not gonna make everybody happy and be comfortable with the fact that, you know what, not everybody's gonna like me. And there's probably somebody down there throwing a dart at the back of my head because I was too aggressive and I'm okay with that.
Lan Elliott:Hopefully there are no darks. But not today. I, yeah. I think if if you've looked at all the facts and you've arrived at what's best for the company, then if you can do it with compassion, as you mentioned, that's a great way to, to lead.
Amy Jakubowski:And sometimes you have to get loud in that meeting. It's okay, but there's ways of doing it and you have to. And I struggle with this because I get so passionate about things personally that it sometimes comes off as emotional. And I remind myself to be passionate, but keep it, factual. So that's the way to manage that assertiveness. That's fantastic.
Lan Elliott:A advice. You've also said another quote from your article that the more diversity you have in any organization, the broader the perspective, you have different perspectives, different solutions, which is a great advantage for any company. And of course, diversity can be so much more than race and gender. That's what we generally tend to think about at it as. It could be, socioeconomic diversity. It could be first generation people in a firm versus people who have, have their families have been going to college for many generations. And you also have in design firms a lot of creative people, which leads to a lot of diversity of thought in that way. And we've also talked having international clients, international offices, then you've got, you're layering in diverse cultures and different ways of thinking and working. As a lot of people are starting to build more diverse teams, Design firms and what you've been working in the area you've been working in with a lot of international clients. You've been working with diverse teams and clients for a really long time, managing different perspectives, which isn't easy. It's actually very challenging, but if you want all those points of view, you need to allow them to come forward and to be able to manage all those different ways of thinking. How do you handle that? How do you ensure. Diverse people feel heard and that you can get lots of different perspectives to reach the best.
Amy Jakubowski:It is a constant challenge and creatives by nature have a diversity of thought. I, sometimes say it's it's hurting everybody into one area. But I think there's two approaches, right? Because we do work globally. There's the at home base approach where we have our diverse teams. I like to create, and this is one of my favorite parts of the day. these collaborations where we come together and, the project moves along and people have their roles, but we come together on a weekly basis for every project and we run through the designs and we have round tables and we talk about it. And by nature of our organization and our makeup, everybody's diverse. So that table has always got a diverse background at it, added the layer that we're also working globally. A project that we're doing in Saudi Arabia is not the same type of project that we're doing in Shanghai. So each project team, we get involved and we get to know our clients and we bring those cultural differences to each one of those. And it actually lends perspective. What I learned doing work in the Middle East actually lends some ideas to the US-based projects, to the China-based projects. And that global perspective brings a lot of new ideas and solutions and some. are good for one and not another. So you're juggling it all in on a daily basis and on a project per basis. So I always try, let's look at the project and let's have those ideas and bring them together. The design world in nature has always been diverse, so I don't know. I'm sure we're challenged in different ways in today's way of talking about it, but I've never not been in a diverse situation, and I've always found it enriching and enlightening and you learn something new and it's just wonderful. my good mentor way back when said, even the simplest thing, like sitting at a dinner table, if somebody offers you, take it, say thank you, try it. You don't know if you'll like it, but it starts to open up the world of possibilities. So listen, take it on board and let the opportunities unfold.
Lan Elliott:That's wonderful. Can apply that to so many things, right?
Amy Jakubowski:So many things. So many things, right? I think back and I'm like wow. What I've learned, I've forgotten most of what I've learned. I disappointed
Lan Elliott:I'm sure you've remembered a lot and just, have that basically library in your head of so many different perspectives and managing through groups that maybe approach things very differently. But I think, and here's where that c Sorry. No, sorry. Go ahead. Here's
Amy Jakubowski:what, you mentioned earlier, long curiosity. Here's where that curiosity comes back too. So when you're sitting in a room full of diverse people and you don't know something, what a great opportunity to ask questions and be curious about it, because people do wanna share their insights and their thoughts, and it's a great learning opportunity. My first project in, in the Middle East, I didn't know the culture. I learned it my first project in China, in Canada. You asked these questions and you learn it, and it just opens up a whole world. Knowledge and new ideas. That's
Lan Elliott:right. And that diverse person who maybe isn't comfortable speaking up in the room, they might have a really great perspective that no one else has mentioned yet, but sometimes you need to prompt them, make them feel like, not just make them feel like, to really include them and bring their perspective in. Because who knows what people, what great ideas people are thinking if they're being quiet.
Amy Jakubowski:Exactly. And a lot, and you'll find a lot of people are quiet, so you have to draw it out of them. Absolutely.
Lan Elliott:Speaking of being quiet, one of the generalizations that's made about women is that we don't do a good job of advocating for ourselves. And that's part of the challenge, right? And seeing women elevated to the C-suites, getting promotions, raises. what would you tell people who are struggling to find their voice to ask for something? They really.
Amy Jakubowski:gosh. That's, that is something that we all suffer, isn't it? That we don't really advocate for ourselves because we just and I'm guilty of this too, we just do our jobs and we work hard. One of the things I would say is it's. I've noticed recently and try to phrase this in a way that people ask for things because they did one small task. I always sit down with people and say, what is your goals? What is your future? And start advocating for yourself. Know what you wanna be and what steps you have to take it. Because I think some of it is that they don't understand. They understand what they did today in that. A raise or a promotion, but it doesn't actually fulfill the role. I would say work towards the role that you wanna fulfill and then ask for it. Don't be afraid to ask for it, but ask for it in the context of what it is that you're ultimately trying to achieve. Not just what you're trying to achieve is second, but what your next step. I think
Lan Elliott:that's so true. I do find sometimes young people will come and look for the next step. And it's about the next step. It's not really about what's needed for that next step. I did have one young person come and ask me what's the job description of the next level up that I want to get to so that I can do a comparison for what I'm doing and what's needed there. And I thought that was brilliant. He's moved up really quickly just because of his approach. And I think, approaching it as, What is needed for that role and how do I gain those skills? Just really great.
Amy Jakubowski:Very thoughtful. And if somebody doesn't ask, I start and open that conversation. I'll be like what do you want to do? Yeah. What are you hoping to do? What are you doing today? Did you know what you have to do for tomorrow? And so giving that roadmap, I think it's on us as well to help with that roadmap. Sometimes they ask questions they don't know what the questions are to ask. Yeah. But the way that young man formed it is perfect. Yeah. I was always told you have to operate at the role that you want to.
Lan Elliott:It's true. It's true. Understand what that is, what you're asking for.
Amy Jakubowski:Exactly.
Lan Elliott:Let's talk a little bit about support systems. One of the concepts that we discuss on our podcast is having a personal board of directors, people that you go to, to ask advice. How do you identify who is part of your support system and when you call on them, and what types of things you call on them.
Amy Jakubowski:I think your support system is wide and it's varied and it can run from friends to family, to personal peer colleagues and industry colleagues and I think throughout the years and throughout, as we grow to be leaders, we create this entire network and I think you call on each person based on what you need. And so it depends on what the problem is or what you need. Sometimes it's a person that you just need to. dump your day on. I can't necessarily do that with a staff member. I can't necessarily do that with a peer in some ways, but that's where a friend comes into play, right? Because don't ever disqualify that need to just vent and get some of the things out of your system, and you direct that. And then there's problem solvings and then there's like networking within your company, each one. I would say, Board of directors broad. You don't need the universe as it, but do keep it broad enough that you have the diversity to help solve different issues at different times. We talk about support systems and we talked a little bit about this and one of the things that really, and. Triggered me and prompted me not only this position cuz you know, it's such a great company, but we have a diverse group of people here as the broader Perkins and Will umbrella that p y R sits under. And what an incredible group of women leadership that I've gotten involved in just by joining the company. And it's been amazing and I didn't see that. And yet I, I'm finding it so valuable just in the last year that I've been here growing and learning from them. So keep your eyes open. board of directors can change consistently and just know who to ask the questions of, find those people that you can lean on for certain things and other things, not one person is going to solve every issue that you have.
Lan Elliott:I love the idea of the group of women. at Perkins and Wills that get together and we do. Yeah, that, that's a great, that's a great benefit. I wish that I had that at some of my companies just
Amy Jakubowski:got it now. I haven't had it all these years, so it's really quite wonderful and it's always it's somehow, it's always timely. I don't know if it's universe working in it. So we have a quarterly meeting where we all get together and just talk. business, the ups, the downs, the pros, the who need help, and it's just ev. It's always been timely. Every time we've had this meeting, something has come up that's helped answer a question that I had on my desk. Yeah, so I'm thankful for that.
Lan Elliott:and it can be a formal, organization that, that's put together, or it can be an informal group that you can put together with a number of women that wherever you work, right?
Yeah.
Amy Jakubowski:And absolutely. This was something that, this wasn't something that the company did. This was something that the women themselves did. And I was lucky enough that this was in place when I joined. But it should be, you should create peer groups and support systems within your organization and with outside your organization too.
Lan Elliott:Love that. Great advice. So another quote from your article is is about mentors. And you've said that people should seek out strong, nurturing mentors. Who would you re, who would you credit who's been had a big impact on your career and maybe share a time when they supported a crucial turning point in your.
Amy Jakubowski:oh my gosh. I've had so many amazing mentors and they've been pivotal on every aspect. But I think the one that really jumpstarted it, when I when I was in college and I needed a job to pay for college, I was determined it was to be in a design firm. I wanted to continue to hone my career. My mentor at the time and the woman that gave me my first job was such an incredible mentor to me that I ended up onboarding some of the things, like when she asked me to do things, she taught me why and explained why. And that kind of stuck with me over the years. And I tried to do the same thing for the people that I work with. And, 30 years later, I still give her a lot of credit because I felt like she gave me that first break. There was something she saw that she trusted and it just blossomed into. A 30 year career of exciting career for me. So that was hugely pivotal. There's been more along the way, but that was that one moment. I graduated in a recession and a lot of people did not have jobs. Yeah. So
Lan Elliott:significant. Yeah. Not only did you find that job, you found a great mentor as part of it. Yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned you have a number of them. So do your mentors come in and out? So you have mentors that don't let, it's not necessarily that you have a mentor that stays with you the entire time. Some of them might, but you have mentors that come in and out over time.
Amy Jakubowski:Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. We evolve as humans. Businesses evolve, things evolve and you meet new people along your journey. You find new people and yes so mentors come in and out of your life and I think you have to embrace them. Sometimes they stay as long-term friends. Sometimes they're just a business colleague that have taught you something and that are mentoring you through a moment in your career. But they do come in and out and take ad, I don't wanna say take advantage, it doesn't sound quite right, but do take up. Opportunity to embrace some of the people that are right in front of you that you don't even realize are mentors. Sometimes you don't even realize they were a mentor until you reflect back on and you're like, wow, they really got me through or taught me a few things in the last year or two. One of the things that I've seen companies do and I've never seen it done successfully, is they create mentor programs and they try to assign people to a mentor and honestly, I really do believe it's far more organic than. And because there's so many, you don't have to have one specific, I think we do find those people to help us and mentor us in the areas that we need at the time that we need it. So I would say, be more proactive as a per personal to find your mentor. Don't let a, don't let an organization try to create that program. I've never seen it work.
Lan Elliott:but there, going back to vulnerability, which we talked about earlier. Yeah. Especially as young women in your careers asking for help can sometimes, you can think that means that you are, the perception will be that you can't do it yourself. That you can't figure it out yourself if you're asking for help. So that's really a moment of vulnerability to go to someone and to try and develop a mentoring relationship with them.
Amy Jakubowski:And you know what, it's. you're not gonna have all the answers, none of us do. It's okay to have it's okay to have a village around you. There is nothing wrong with that. So I don't think anybody should be afraid of that. Obviously, if you're asking me every day and you don't know it, that's a different conversation. But as a growing professional, we learn, particularly in the design industry, you don't really know anything about construction until you're standing on that job site and they're asking you questions for something you drew, and you need an answer to that. What a great lesson, but you're not gonna know all of that. And so it's really important to be okay with asking question. That's great advice.
Lan Elliott:Looking back on your journey, Amy what would you want your 22 year old self to know? I think I would say
Amy Jakubowski:probably I, hey, 22 year old, you're actually doing okay. Trust yourself, you, you're making good choices cuz I don't know that I, I trusted that yet cuz my 22 year old self was still learning. So I was comfortable learning. But I think I also lacked a trust and I'm finding as I get older, I probably know more than I thought I did or I assume other people know more. Same thing back then, like just be okay. I did it anyway, but I felt I could have trusted myself a little bit more.
Lan Elliott:That's great. So as we're coming to the end of our show one of one of the things that we talk about at d i advisors, our motto, Is, and our mission is to empower personal success. So you've provided a lot of great advice this today. Can you share one final piece of advice that you would offer to women and underrepresented groups that are looking to prepare better, prepare themselves for career advance?
Amy Jakubowski:I was thinking a little bit about this, and I'm gonna tell you I could quote the one thing that I wrote too, but I do wanna say keep an eye on the future, but stay in the present. Sometimes we look too far ahead that we don't really stop to learn and stay in the moment of what it is that we're focused on. So keep looking forward, keep striving for. Don't lose sight of what you're learning at that moment and the adventure that you're on at that day as you look towards the future. And with that, I would say be receptive. Listen, learn. Hit the pavement and always say yes. I said yes to every opportunity, whether it's small or big, and it's paid off in a lot of ways.
Lan Elliott:Great. Thank you so much, Amy. So I'm going to put up our website on the screen and if you would like to check out other videos with our other advisors our website is www.deiadvisors.org and you can find other videos there. And thank you so much Amy for your time today and your wonderful advice that you've.
Amy Jakubowski:Really appreciate. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate, always enjoy talking to you. Always enjoy mentoring the next generation as well.
Lan Elliott:Thank you.