It's Personal Stories, A Hospitality Podcast

Abby Murtagh, Area Vice President, Hilton, interviewed by Lan Elliott

• David Kong

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Abby discusses how authenticity and kindness together are where real power comes from.  She talks about how she was able to reopen the resort and quickly fill almost every open position by first establishing the key characteristics and values for certain roles and ensuring they had an inclusive list of qualified candidates.  When leading diverse teams, Abby advises leaders to start by building trust, which encourages interesting conversations and allows teams to embrace healthy conflict.

Lan Elliott:

Hello and welcome to D E I Advisors. My name is Lan Elliot on behalf of D E I advisors, and today I'm really thrilled to have as our guest advisor, Abby Murtagh, the general manager of the iconic Arizona Biltmore Hotel, a Waldorf Astoria Resort. And so welcome, welcome, Abby. Thank

Abby Murtagh:

you. Great to be here. So nice

Lan Elliott:

to see you, and I'm fortunate to know Abby through her tireless work to foster diversity in the hospitality industry. So really pleased to be able to have her here now. Now, Abby, you were appointed general manager of the Biltmore in January of 2021, and you led the reopening of the hotel, which had been a. Bit of a tired resort, but it was transformed over 13 months and a hundred million of investment and reopened in April, 2021. And I've read that it has been described as magical so far. So I'm really excited to come out there and see it in January. Can you share a little bit about how you built your successful career? Because this is one of the most iconic hotels, I think, in our industry. And to be able to open it after such a major transformation. I know you started in food and beverage and worked at some amazing places, but what were some of the factors that contributed to your success?

Abby Murtagh:

Yes. It is, it's been an amazing journey and while I have worked at some fantastic iconic hotels, I've also worked at some maybe lesser known or completely unknown places and had, very humble beginning jobs along the way. And I think the biggest thing Lan was I always just loved this business and loved what I do in it. And along the way there have been many points where I had to make a decision and, as I went through my life started out as a single woman and then collected a family and had to make more choices that involved a broader audience but along the way, always. taking some risks and sometimes taking some humbling positions because you never know who you're gonna meet in that journey and how they can affect your future. And so it was really some of those risk taking moments that, that really defined where I am today and helped me get here.

Lan Elliott:

Yeah, you took a few jobs that maybe you thought, oh, maybe this may or may not be a good job for me. Does it lead me where I want to go?

Abby Murtagh:

Exactly. A good example of that was in New York, I was at the Wal Story in New York and the hotel was getting ready to shut down for a major renovation, which is still underway to this day and I was offered to take a position in Salt Lake City. It was my first gm. So that was exciting, but sight, not sight unseen. And, there's an opportunity, Abby would just like to take it. A lot of people want this job. And so we took the leap with the family. I took the leap and brought the family. We all decided to go. And after being at the iconic Waldorf historian New York, A pretty modest but beautiful hotel in downtown Salt Lake City was a big risk taking opportunity, but I wouldn't have gotten this opportunity without that one. That's great. That's

Lan Elliott:

wonderful. Great way to think about, sometimes it's not a straight line in a career trajectory. Sometimes you go sideways a little bit in an unexpected way to get to the next. Yeah. So in your incredible career journey you've had a lot of great wins, but like most people, not everything is rosy. There are challenges and setbacks along the way. Can you share a challenge that you encountered along your career path and how you approached it? Maybe what lessons you learned as a.

Abby Murtagh:

Absolutely. So a great example. We've all just been through the pandemic and it really took a major impact. We took a major impact in the hotel business because travel virtually stopped and it was for many of us, for the millions of us in this industry, one of the most depressing moments in our career. And after that I was opening the resort and I opened the resort in April of 21. So just emerging from the pandemic. So we had to get this resort open and it was in the midst of what they call the great resignation. So a time when people were like, I'm not gonna join that business anymore. It's it furloughed me or I got laid off. It doesn't feel right. So it was a major challenge to rebuild our people and rebuild our culture after the pandemic. And that was something that I, together with the team, really dug into my executive team as to how we could approach that moving forward. What we had to pivot, what we had to change. And we did, we, we created an, a completely new strategy with a people focus making sure our people. Divided our team in three recruitment, retention, and development, and stayed steady with that focus. Now it's been almost a year and we are almost at a hundred percent full employment. And and you wanna talk about magic? I appreciate that you mentioned a magical feeling at the resort. I get that magical feeling with our people and with our culture right now walking around the property. And it's one of my proudest things that we've been able to accomplish this

Lan Elliott:

That's really incredible. I haven't heard too many people lately say that they're close to having their full staffing. And so yeah, your approach really has driven a very different feeling at the property and among your

Abby Murtagh:

employees. Absolutely. We're really we're vibing. We're very proud of that. Right now, we're having a lot of fun.

Lan Elliott:

So one of your quotes is that I really love is if your dreams don't scare you, they're not big enough. And the first time I read that, it pretty much stopped me in my tracks and it made me think, are you thinking strategically enough about your career? Can you share how, how this quote came to you and how you've put this into action in your career.

Abby Murtagh:

The quote came to me when I was actually I was interviewing for this job and one of my very close colleagues and, just personal friends in the business knew I was on the interview and she sent me a little, text that day with that quote. If you're gonna tear up, if your dreams don't scare you, they're not big enough. And I just thought that I. There's so many reasons, so many little voices in our head sometimes that say, it's too much, it's too big, it's too scary, you're not ready. All the, what about the family? Is everyone gonna there's a whole new thing. You gotta reinvent yourself. But all those little scary things. If you put'em together and you put'em aside, you're like, this is amazing. Like, how if I didn't have this opportunity in front of me right now, it's the kind exactly what I would be. So it was like that moment that just flipped it. And and flipping, that I guess insecurity for a minute and really focusing on those dreams I think is something that if we can embrace that as much as possible, it really is where power comes from and you can start making those choices that are really the best for you and just going.

Lan Elliott:

It's really great advice and we see that a lot with young people, actually, people at all points in their career where they don't really go for it. And maybe they're not doing a good job advocating for themselves. And, we've. Heard that might be part of the challenge for women and some underrepresented groups in getting the promotions or the raises or the jobs that they really want. What would you tell people who are struggling to find their voice? Because scary dreams are like really a big step. What would advice do you have for people who are really still in that negative self-talk?

Abby Murtagh:

I would say to challenge that and figure out how you can flip that voice to the other side. And what I mean, okay, I'll give an example. Because this is reality. I was in an interview for a big job and it was a, like a three people interviewing me, and. these are like those voices in your head that kind of come to life every now and then, and they're sitting right across from you in an interview. And one other person said I just don't know. I don't know. I think we need someone. It was not a Four Seasons, but this is someone from the Four Seasons should be interviewing for this job. And I'm like, I'm sitting right here. People So I just leaned into that and I said, yeah, What do we like about the Four Seasons? What is it about that candidate that is really attractive and, taking control of the conversation and trying to really get to the essence of what they were looking for is what my strategy was in that moment. And then I could channel my conversation and my talking points and all the things I could surface from my career to really meet what their expectations were. You can do the same thing with those voices in your head too. And I've also found that those voices get louder when we are run down, when we're tired when we're not at our best. So sometimes you just need to take a moment, take a break get some. And then you're like, I don't know who that was talking to me, but they are full of, you know what, I'm not gonna be listening to that anymore. I'm gonna listen to the real me, which is back and motivated and, knowing what I want outta life.

Lan Elliott:

I love that self-care is a big part of having the energy to go out there and bring your best game every day. Yeah. So one of the challenges that we've had women leaders talk about is this idea of an assertive. Double bind so that you either, you, it's almost like you have to choose between being nice or being competent. If you're overly nice and kind, you're probably not strong enough to do the job. You can't lead. And if you are overly assertive and very competent, then you know, that also creates negative. Perceptions of women who, who who do that. So how do you have that balance? Because, you've worked with some, difficult properties and also had to have some very challenging conversations with people. How do you navigate that balance? There's

Abby Murtagh:

a difference between being nice and being kind. In, in my definition, being nice, I think is maybe doing compromises that don't really agree with your values. Not really a deep a deep emotion. Where being kind, I think is really trying to understand humankind and where people are coming from and giving people the benefit of the doubt of listening and understanding. Before making any kind of a call on your end with what needs to happen next. I think when people are overly nice it, it grates at their authenticity and I think authenticity and kindness together are where real power comes from. At least that's where it's come from for me. And it's a formula that works because it's real. And I, and in leadership especially, I think people. Can tell when you're not being real, when you're not being authentic and and that doesn't work for the long term. It doesn't work for me for the long term. So that's what I would say is, really take some time and understand yourself and what your values are. And we can talk about that a little bit more. But really going back to that, how can you surface the kindness and. The connection and the relation that is really important when you're dealing with people in, at any level, whether it's a customer, a guest a team member, a new hire, an executive who's been here for years and knows a lot about everything. Just surfacing that kindness with authenticity at the same time. Very powerful. That's great

Lan Elliott:

advice. I love the part about being authentic to yourself because it's always gonna come through, right?

Abby Murtagh:

Yeah. People can smell it. And you can feel it for yourself.

Lan Elliott:

So just continuing along the same vein, when you think of, traditional. idea of a leader you might think of, first thing that pops in your man in your mind might be a man who's very assertive, go-getter. But women bring a different sensibility and different traits to leadership. What characteristics, and let me back up. You have a very diverse team. It's something that you're really known for working on what characteristics or. Style. Do you look for an up and coming women that tells you they could be, a really great leader because it might look different than what might surface authentically for a man, for example? Yeah, that's an

Abby Murtagh:

interesting question because. How I like to approach it with my teams are number one, we want, we wanna have the biggest funnel of candidates possible. So it starts with making sure that we have an inclusive list of qualified candidates and I always make sure we ask for that whenever we have an open position. The second thing and in conjunction is that we are very clear on what we're looking for in a particular position. I spend time with my executive team when we have something that requires multiple interviews with multiple team members or executive team members or other managers that we have questions that we refer to, that we go back to, to make sure we're really. The information we need in the interview. And then thirdly, very importantly, is we look at how that candidate measures up to our values. So we've spent time on my team establishing what our key characteristics and values are that we look for in people, men or women, everyone. And they have to have those key. For us to be part of the team. And that came after time of really looking at what that is. And, that takes the man woman conversation out and really focuses on the candidate. And really through that process, naturally you get a diverse team. That's been my experience and the best

Lan Elliott:

candidate. Yep. That's really great advice. It takes a little bit of work to sit down and think about the values, right? Because that's not something we usually talk about. Yeah. When we're thinking about what criteria that they might Yeah. Might have. Another great lens to look at it through. To gain alignment on first. Let's switch gears a little bit and talk about mentors and champions. And I know you've worked for some very demanding bosses who have become mentors for you. How have you been able to win them over? like sometimes, turning them into our mentor or champion. What and what things have you learned from your mentors and champion?

Abby Murtagh:

Yes. When you get the more difficult or higher level jobs you tend, the stakes are higher. There's more money that's been put into a property. For example, you mentioned a hundred million into this property and a couple tens of thousands, millions more since, since we hit our original. But with, I think the most important thing at any level is seek to understand what what is being asked of you. At the end of the day, we are here to do a job for whomever hired us, right? And we have to deliver on that. Really taking the time to understand what it is that you've been asked to accomplish and focusing your resources on accomplishing what. in my case, one of my owners was asking for, one

Lan Elliott:

of, one of, or your direct leader, the

Abby Murtagh:

person that you're reporting to, that's number one. And when you do that and really focus on what they need in outcome and you deliver on that outcome, then you start to establish trust. And you know that when you have those two together, then the relationship can change and become, I think, a little bit more of a mentor-mentee type relationship where you start to get, ask for advice and open up and you know it's okay at that point to show your vulnerability. Like for example, with this job, I did not know enough about landscaping. I worked in pretty much city hotels before this. and one of my mentors here is openly educating me on landscaping. So every time we walk around I learn more and more about it. And it's fascinating. It's fun. And,

Lan Elliott:

That's part of the joy of growth

Abby Murtagh:

and why we're in this business is now I know more about landscaping than than I ever thought I would at this point.

Lan Elliott:

such a key part of the resort, and especially your resort which is so situated, in, in nature

Abby Murtagh:

in that way. Yeah. Yeah.

Lan Elliott:

So in terms of your focus on de and I, that's actually how we first met through Castell College, which brings women women hospitality executives to speak at colleges and universities, hospitality programs. So creating. Inclusive workplaces and mentoring members of your team as a big focus that you've had for some time, how did that come about?

Abby Murtagh:

I think because in the very early days of my career, I really felt alone I really felt like there was a, there was a whole. code of conduct or a book of rules somewhere that everybody knew that I didn't know and I felt like I was really trying to navigate it alone. Of course, I'm talking about, I was one of the only women, in, in food and beverage, especially in the early days, especially I was the director of food and beverage at the age of. 25 and, in a in a res at that time, it was a resort that, that hadn't had much diversity. So I really felt alone and I don't, if I have a chance to influence that and help people and create a community that's why where my interest comes from. And I really yeah. I just feel like the more we can talk about these things and surface. Understand that everybody has a value and how we can get more voices to the table. it makes for so much more strength, not only for the organization, but for everybody around the table as well.

Lan Elliott:

Agreed. Yeah. Agreed. Now, when you move into a new position, I've experienced this a little bit, but maybe you could share some of the key things you like to put in place when you first moved to a new position or a new hotel.

Abby Murtagh:

Yeah. I think the first thing is, to find out what what we all agree on. First of all, it's about find, you have to in a brand new position. I think it's about understanding first. And typically things are done for a reason. Maybe it was a long time ago that they were done, but understanding what people are passionate. What they're trying to accomplish every day. And then eventually, coming to a shared agreement, a shared understanding about what the overarching goal is. And I like to look at an annual goal and then break that down into quarters. But when it comes to interviewing, then, as I mentioned before we really look to have a big qualified group of candidates that are diverse. and at some point along that stage as we're trying to understand what we all agree with and who we all are, really important to have that values discussion. So that we're all lining up that we have a large candidate pool and that everybody that we do hire and bring on is aligned with our values as well. So those are some of the important buckets that I really look at when I'm approaching a new

Lan Elliott:

situ. One of the things I read about that, that you've done at the Biltmore is one of your d i initiatives is around executive development. can you share a little bit about that? Cuz a lot of times you get into a job and you do your job and you learn what you need to do your job. But there isn't a lot. Developing people, especially, middle or senior management further. So I'm curious what sorts of things have you done with your team?

Abby Murtagh:

I love the development. Programs that we have going on here, and we have a vision for so many more in the future. But the first thing that I did is that we, through Hilton, were offered, the GMs were offered an executive coach through a company, a third party company. And and I did it. I tried it, I loved it. It's person you can talk to, not associated. with Hilton at all. But you can talk to about, Hey, I have this tough situation. I'm trying to get this group to work together, whatever the case may be. And they help you, they'll help coach you through it. So I asked my executive team to try it for six months. So I purchased it for all of them. Many of them had never had a coach before, so it was a totally new thing. But what that helps us do is understand a lot about ourselves, about where our. Our areas of improvement could be what we need to work on as a leader. Really surfacing that stuff. It's not easy, not everybody loves it. So some people decided to continue on after six months, some didn't. But from that we created a commitment that we would then as executives share about ourselves, share about our discipline and our journey. So each executive member of my team has has an a monthly. Program where they have an hour that they talk about their discipline and they talk about themselves as a leader. And it's, an open house. People love it, but it doesn't stop there. Just this week we had a supervisor development program that we launched and I was expecting just a few people in the room and I was shocked, and how many supervisors we have at this property of this size. But that's the position where someone is just elevated from an hourly. To now having more responsibilities that we can really coach on. a, It's a neglected area, I would say, in a lot of in a lot of places. But one that we're really leaning into to help that position, understand emotional intelligence, time management, project management, all the great buckets that it takes to develop and become a great. yeah. Many levels we're working on.

Lan Elliott:

Yeah that's incredible because it is a very different skillset when you go, when you first become a manager. Yeah. And you're expected because you did a good job in your last job that you'll know how to do this job and it is very different skills that you need. And I love. You're mentioning the executive coach. I've had a great executive coach in the past who really helped me. Yeah. Yeah. And one, one of the things someone had said in the past is that the hardest work that you'll do is on yourself. Hundred percent. And if you really wanna make great use of an executive coach, you really have to do some naval gazing and and learn about yourself make some changes. And it's hard, but it can be so worth it. In, in, in learning to lead teams. Let's talk a little bit about leading diverse teams, because obviously there's a lot of studies out there that talk about the many benefits to the business for having diverse points of view, but it can be challenging to lead diverse teams. A homo homogeneous team that thinks alike has shared experiences is gonna Easier and faster to lead. But there are benefits from having different perspective, but it doesn't mean that it's going to be fast. It might be a little bit slower. Yeah. As you put in different points of view and perspectives what advice would you have for leaders that are managing diverse teams for the first time?

Abby Murtagh:

First I wanna make the comment that while leading a team that is not diverse, might not. It's difficult. I think people come to agreements maybe faster, but it's not always the best outcome after they come to that agreement. So I would say every effort is worth it to foster conversations. When you have a diverse team, you're gonna have different angles, different perspectives, and much more interesting conversations about how to solve problems, about what the real issues. And let's face it, what our job is as a elite, as any leader, is really to figure out what the issues are and help solve them. And with the diverse team, you'll have a lot more perspective. There's a great book out there called The Five Dysfunctions of a Team, which is like a classic that I recommend anybody read. There's a million books out there that can help. But but one of the founding principles of that is that every great team is founded. You have to have trust. the first thing to do is to figure out how to get that base level of trust amongst your teams. What I like to do is I like to do lead experiences like an offsite or a half day or, something that we can get out our normal work environment and really get to know each other and, if you can't afford to do a whole offsite it's even the simple things like getting everyone out together after work. A round table or a cocktail or a dinner or something like that to get to know each other is so important and a step. I think that up that I've seen you missed often in the past, but I've also seen it done really well. And when you have that level of trust first you can foster conversations, brave conflict, healthy conflict. Do it in a way that supports your values, not making people feel. Yeah, again, with kindness and authenticity, not making people feel called out, making them feel included and that their opinion is valued and you'll get to a much better outcome. But it's also a lot of fun. As I mentioned, a lot more interesting to have conversations with diverse groups than homogeneous ones.

Lan Elliott:

Absolutely. And I love the part about getting to know people, getting to know them as people. fundamentally not just as colleagues that you work with. So wonderful advice. So one of our. Favorite questions at D E I advisors is what advice would you give to your younger self? And I think we like this because it just goes towards self-reflection. I think we've found, as we've talked among ourselves, that it changes over time. What advice you'd want your 22 yourself. Year old self to know, but at this point in time, Abby Murav what advice would you want to give to your 22nd, 22 year old self?

Abby Murtagh:

It's a very important question and one that my coach often asked me to go back and because, Often when we have that voice in our head or the insecurities, it is actually your younger self talking to you, So she tells me, go back and tell that younger self what you know now. So it's a great question, a very smart question. I think the number one thing I would say that pops in my head is that you have value. And it might, maybe it doesn't feel like it at the moment, but looking at the team around you, maybe you feel like you don't fit in at certain points that it feels uncomfortable to articulate your voice. Maybe it feels like you've been looked over for something, but that you have value. And the more that you can know that about yourself and also articulate the things that are important to you. The stronger that you're gonna be in, continue to grow that and test that. That would be the biggest piece I would give myself at this moment. But it changes all the time depending on what the. Yes,

Lan Elliott:

I love those words of encouragement. And I could actually keep talking to you for a long time cuz I always learn new things whenever I'm with you. But we're coming towards You're coming towards the end of our conversation. Could you offer one more piece of advice to women and underrepresented groups that are looking to advance their career?

Abby Murtagh:

Yeah. All right. I think really two, number one is whatever you are, be a good one. And that, I think was an Abraham Lincoln quote, if I'm quoting correctly, but look in this business and pandemic was a great example of that. I went from running a hotel to cleaning restrooms and cooking employee meals in a week. It goes that fast. But whatever you are, be a good one. Try to do the best you can and embrace that. It will pay off. And the second piece of advice is to share your dream. Don't keep it inside. Don't feel like it is that people are gonna laugh at you at this resort. We have a dream that we wanna be the best resort in the world and the best time. I, the first time I said that outside, I thought people are gonna laugh at me and. Maybe they do sometimes, but I don't care. Everybody here loves it and we're trying to be the best resort in the world and in our minds, some days we are. I think it's about that keep your keep yourself being the best that you can in your position and Don't be afraid to share your dreams. I love that.

Lan Elliott:

Thank you so much, Abby. Really appreciate you being on here and sharing your journey and your wonderful insights. And I love the way that you approach and look at the world and how you are. So good at taking care of your team and your guests, but but how you really look out for your team. And I think that's really inspiring. So thank you Abby, for being on and for our viewers, if you've enjoyed this interview with Abby, I hope you'll go to our website, d e i advisors.org to look for other interviews. Thank you so

Abby Murtagh:

much. Thank you. And thank you for doing what you do, man. Thank you. This is wonderful. Thanks. Appreciate you.