Terri Haack, Managing Director, Wild Dunes Resort, Interviewed by Rachel Humphrey

Terri shares her path to leadership and the role her family played in developing her character and career journey.  She talks about the importance of leading with kindness first, her strategies for developing relationships and support systems, and how her courage helped her lead during the pandemic.  Terri also shares how she can be impacted by her own negative self-talk and what she does to try to overcome that narrative to help her thrive in any situation she encounters.

Transcript

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Rachel Humphrey 0:04

Good afternoon. I am Rachel Humphrey with d e i advisors, and I'm very excited today to be joined by Terry Hack and Terry, your path and my paths have just crossed for the first time only recently and we're gonna talk about that in a few minutes. But I'm incredibly excited to spend a little time with you today and welcome

Terri Haack 0:22

to the show. Thank you so much, and congratulations on all the great work that you're doing. It's really. really inspirational, so I am humbled and honored to be here.

Rachel Humphrey 0:33

Thanks, Terry. Terry, one of the things I love so much about the hospitality industry is that everyone has an incredibly unique path to leadership. Tell us a little bit about your story, very different from so many others in the industry, and how you got to where you are today from a career

Terri Haack 0:50

standpoint. Yes, I will. And my story is, Very different than many of the previous guests that you've had on your interviews. I'll just start right in. As of April of this year, I joined our corporate office low in Brentwood, California, and have left the operations side of what I've done my entire career. Prior to joining corporate, I was at Terranea Resort for 15 years pre-construction into opening. we opened in '09. If you can imagine. The worst economic downfall of our time, hopefully. And we built the business. It was very exciting about that. And then about 11 years later, we closed during. A pandemic. And so that too was a gigantic challenge. But the resort is thriving today. And as I think about my journey, I'm the oldest child of nine, excuse me, I'm the third oldest of nine children. I have seven brothers, so don't mess with me. and one baby sister, who was the last one born. And essentially I grew up in a middle class family. the only girl of seven boys. And I believe that set me on the path to leadership because I was able to maneuver where my place was in our family unit. Did my brothers need a second basement or did my mother need help with dinner? And it was interesting because I could do both as long as I knew. How to play the game, and I think that has helped me be able to maneuver through some very complicated journeys that I've had because I'm okay. With doing either. And I think quite frankly, I've been playing second base or making dinner most of my life and most of my career. I think one very important, pivotal thing that happened in my early life was that my parents told me that the seven boys needed to go to the all boys Catholic high school, and I could only go. To the all girls Catholic high school for one year, and then I needed to go to public school because they couldn't afford for the boys to go and for me to go, and I don't resent my parents for that. It was the time that we grew up in men's education was far more important than women's education. and I determined that I was going to stay in that high school all four years. I started working at 15 and a half full-time at the old Denver airport. So that sort of dates me and I haven't stopped since. But that moment of determination that said, I'm gonna make my way because I need to. And that's really what set my journey of hospitality so early

Rachel Humphrey 4:06

on. That's incredible. And I think that one of the things, because our paths have only recently crossed, I only know you as Terry Haack today, and as a matter of fact, I believe President of Terranea Resorts when we met. Yes. And so it's incredible to hear. Not just how your career path shaped you, but that family unit shaped you and gender roles played such a big part in it. Really incredible. I do wanna turn and talk a little bit about how we met. Last year, as and I'll share with everybody else, I was moderating a panel at an industry conference and you were one of the panelists, and you and I. Spoke beforehand, and you shared with me that you weren't sure that you were a good fit for the panel. You weren't sure compared to the other male panelists that you had value to add. You had some questions and quite honestly, you had tremendous respect for the other panelists. And we talked ahead of time and we prepped, and I didn't know you. I thought maybe she is gonna be terrible. How do I know? I know the planners of the conference. I don't think she would be, but who knows? And then we had the panel and you were the opposite of terrible. You were fantastic. Not just on the content and knowing your stuff, but on your poise, on your ability to interact with the other panelists. And it really was a moment that really impacted me, and we've talked about this since, how someone else like myself could have so much negative self-talk yet be. So successful in your career, so well known in the industry. Talk a little bit about what you think that stems from and how do you overcome some of that? I think a lot of women really struggle with the voices in our head being a narrative that is not reflective of who, how others

Terri Haack 5:49

see us. Yes. I it was intimidating one to be at the particular conference that we were at. Then I read all of your bio, I read all the bios of my fellow panelist, and I just freaked myself out. And even today, I feel so confident about the industry I'm in, the business that I run, but would I be good enough? Was that little head noise was my story representative and meaningful to. The audience, could I represent my company well? And all of those, all that kind of negative talk goes in your head. And I think that throughout my career, that has been probably my largest obstacle of having enough self-confidence. To say I can do my work all day long, but can I have a voice to speak about the work that I do? And you by the way, were amazing moderator and put me at ease and allowed me to tell my story with grace and dignity. but not in a way that was that I was less than anyone else on that panel. So thank you for allowing me to be a successful panelist. What do

Rachel Humphrey 7:17

you think if there are others that are out there struggling with that same issue of, I'm really good at. Maybe content knowledge or my day-to-day work, but I have these other areas that I have more doubts in. What are some of the strategies that maybe you implement that others might be able to replicate to help you get through those difficult situations when that voice becomes louder than perhaps some of the confidence voices?

Terri Haack 7:42

That's a very great question. learn as much as I can about the situation that I'm going to be in so that I can maneuver in the situation successfully. It seems so like odd, but I even Google where people went to school so that if I have something a little sliver in common that will allow me to. Cordial enough to say something without being a name dropper or without being a know-it-all. I can enter a conversation and be prepared. I think about in my younger days, I, clearly I was one of, or the only woman in the room for most of my career, and I learned early. That the first 10 or 15 minutes before the meeting starts is the most important part of the meeting and it sounds very silly, but I would read the front page of the sports section before I went into any meeting in those early days. That's incredible. Because, not that I was interested in sports, but I was interested in being part of the conversation so that I could say, oh, by the way, yeah, I saw that touchdown. Or no, yeah, that was a great, home run or whatever, but not in a sassy way, only if it was important or that there was a gap in the conversation and it made me one of them. I don't know if that sounds shortsighted, but it, but I had something in common to them because these conversations may go for five or six minutes about one, play in the last minute. I think

Rachel Humphrey 9:33

too, I'm sorry to cut you off. I think that's an incredible way of showing that you identified an area that you could really add value, which was the relationship building side of it. And maybe we can talk about that for a few minutes. Do you use that same strategy? I know we hear from a lot of leaders, be curious about others. You don't need to build relationships based on work. They can be based on family or where you're from or who you root for, these other types of things. do you use the same approach in building your relationships or in networking?

Terri Haack 10:02

I do. Most of my networking has born out of the boards that I choose to participate in, and I've learned that if I can. Be parts of boards, community boards, nonprofit, my child's school board, that the people that are on boards most likely are brilliant and you listen to them and you watch how they maneuver and you make connections with them that you wouldn't normally ever have if you just stay in your own little world of. Your resort, your office. And it's hard to be the brand new board member when everyone knows what's going on, and it's hard to establish yourself as a credible, meaningful participant in this board without being a know-it-all. And that's always what. I always listen more and talk less, and I learn a lot, and that's how I've built my relationships. And quite frankly today, I have relationships with people that I set on boards in early on in my career, and they're wonderful resources when I get stuck with a problem that I just can't figure out. And perhaps my own company is too close to it to figure it out too.

Rachel Humphrey 11:32

That idea of listening more and talking less is more. Another recurring theme that we're hearing is that when you are genuine, when you are authentic and you are listening and you are interested in what others have to say, whether it's for growth or relationship building, that really resonates with other people. I wanna turn back to your. Experience with me last year in terms of public speaking. when we think about public speaking, we think a lot about that panel at a conference with a room of. 200 people, 3000 people, whatever it is. But public speaking can also be presenting to a board, presenting to your management team, talking to your staff during a crisis or a pandemic one-on-one in a meeting with someone. Talk a little bit about public speaking skills that you think that you continue to work on. Other ways that you approach public speaking in different settings. And if you have any advice for others who are really struggling with confidence in public speaking.

Terri Haack 12:25

I think confidence comes from knowledge. If you know the subject matter, then you will be able to communicate that successfully, whether it's one-on-one, I always get prepared before I have a one-on-one with any of our staff, because I just take a moment and try to understand where their head might be as we go into a conversation. I think that you have to practice. You have to be prepared to deliver your remarks without being all over the board, without being about you. If you can stay focused on the subject, it really doesn't matter how you came upon the subject. It really doesn't matter. Why you're speaking to it, it has to be about that person or persons that you're speaking to. And oftentimes I see colleagues that are speaking about themselves and miss the whole point of what was the question. And I'm not being disrespectful, I'm just saying unless you put your head in that mindset that says, I am going to be of service to this person. That's why I'm having a conversation. That's why I'm making this initiative. It is, and you're forced into public speaking arenas that maybe you're not even prepared for. I think I mentioned to you earlier, I'm speaking to a city council today, so I flew in and I'm trying to learn so that I can be respectful to that council tonight. And that's just what you do.

Rachel Humphrey 14:02

I think that's a good point too. I think sometimes on panels or at conferences, people are so worried about getting their points in, they're not actually listening. to the question that's being asked or what the other panelists are saying, to be able to either offer similar or even more importantly, sometimes dissimilar views because they're very tunnel visioned on what they wanna communicate rather than listening. You talked just now about learning and you mentioned that as far as your process both with your corporate career in preparing to speak in building relationships and getting ready for the council hearing tonight. Also in your board service, I know that you pay a lot of attention to avenues where you can continue to learn, whether it's strategies or content. What are some of the places you go for resources? What are some of the things, obviously industry conferences, cuz we spend a lot of time there now together. But what are some of the other avenues that you rely on when you're trying to develop

Terri Haack 14:53

your skillset? I really, again, spend a lot of time in continuous learning. I read. as much as I can. I listen as much as I can. I go to that uncomfortable place to ask questions so that I can learn. I really look at the subject in kind of the endgame. Early on in my career, I was selected to run a very large golf resort, and I knew nothing. About golf. I could play, I couldn't play well, but I could play. And so I read agronomy magazines all the time so that I understood what the turf was, what how you prepare, what you do. And again, I just filed that away so that when it's necessary, excuse me, pardon me, then I can go on and have meaningful conversations.

Rachel Humphrey 15:54

That's incredible. I like the idea too, that it's not just continuous growth about operations or revenue management or leadership, but it's these other categories that allow you to become, maybe not an expert, but at least have a working knowledge of everything around you. That curiosity, I think that's another word yes. That we're hearing so much. As far as continuous growth goes, we think a lot about the pandemic that we all had to learn as we went. That there was no roadmap, there were no mentors out there. But you were at the time, the president of Tan and had a staff and had customers and guests as well as your corporate team to be reporting to. What do you think were some of your personality traits, your skills that really helped you be successful in your leadership during the pandemic?

Terri Haack 16:43

It was, was a heartbreaking time. I believe that because I had courage. and I was able to relay that and demonstrate that through my leadership, that the team could calm down a bit. It was very difficult for us. We were completely full, excuse me, and told that we must close, so I'm so sorry. Okay. So sorry. You're okay. So pardon me. But it was very difficult. We had to lay off almost 1300 people and so we tried to do that with Grace and with dignity, and reassuring them that we would open the resort back up as soon as we could. We spent a lot of time communicating. Our message, even if we didn't know quite what the message was, we were careful with the community. We went ahead and harvest our winter vegetables and gave it to the food bank. We just kept being that community partner, even though we were in this very difficult time. And I believe that the great men and women who work at TER were found value. In the fact that we respected them, but we were in a very difficult situation. We had no business. So I think that courage was the very most important thing that I could demonstrate to everyone. Even if I'm driving my car home and sobbing it no one could see that.

Rachel Humphrey 18:32

And you were in California, which didn't make it any easier on you. No, it

Terri Haack 18:36

was. It was really difficult.

Rachel Humphrey 18:38

Each of us relies on support systems and you mentioned earlier that sometimes those support systems for you come outside of the industry, which I think is. Really telling and something that I have learned from a lot of the d e I advisors that we've had on the show is that turning to people who are not as close to the situation or don't know, the people involved can actually be much more impactful for them. Talk about your reliance on support systems. How you identify maybe the people who you rely on, I'm sure are different for. A family situation or a work situation or an employee situation, but how important is your support system to

Terri Haack 19:14

you? I think it's very important, and the most important thing is being honest. Being honest with whomever you're reaching out to, to really tell 'em the good, the bad, and the ugly. Because oftentimes you seek advice, but maybe you don't tell the whole story, and so you have to have that honesty. That says, I really need your help, and I stubbed my toe here, or we stubbed our toe. Help me understand that. But you have to have that humility that says, okay, put your ego on the back credenza and seek help, but seek it so that whoever's helping you understands the whole picture. Because sometimes you're embarrassed to say, oh man, I should. Done this or that. And then you're not gonna get the support that you need. And I seek colleagues. I seek many leaders in our community that are not involved in the hospitality industry. And we can talk through our strategies and they can listen at, because they know I'm being honest with them. This is really the story. So help me think this through. I sat on our son's school board the entire time from K through eighth grade because I wanted to be involved in what's happening with him. But I was a working mom with a really challenging career, so that was my way to find support within the school system.

Rachel Humphrey 20:53

That's great advice because you're also getting. two things out of it, as you mentioned, and maybe we can pivot and talk about that for a little bit. You're getting the mom relationship in but you're also building a network and building a support system at the same time. A lot of people talk about work-life balance and recently I know people are saying that it eludes all of us. So instead, how do we manage work and life? And you just gave, one way that you do it is to find things that maybe can fill a couple of buckets at the same time, but do you think that you've been successful over your career of pivoting, of learning how to. Balance the two or manage the two. I know, as children age, obviously their needs are very different, but you've had a very demanding career. What are some of the strategies that you have used and whether or not you think you've been successful at it?

Terri Haack 21:39

Again, great question. I like to call it having harmony in my life, not necessarily balance. Quite frankly, I don't think there's balance not in hospitality, there's not, but you can find harmony in what you're doing so that when you're at work, you're really at work. And when you're at home, you're really at home. I was really fortunate that I met my husband in high school. I know that sounds sappy. No, it doesn't. You

Rachel Humphrey 22:09

know, I love this

Terri Haack 22:10

story but I did, and I married him in college and. both of us had a really complicated career. He's a retired commercial airline pilot, so he would be gone for four or five days at a time. And when our son was young, it was really challenging all the logistics that we had to deal with. But I believe that having met my husband and was settled and the fact that he could bid. Other airports allowed me to take all the challenging assignments that only men were taking way back then. Men were moving families, not women, moving families. And so I feel that I'm very blessed that our two careers were able to meld together and our son got it. He understood that. I needed to work. I wanted to work. I loved to work, and I kept him involved in understanding what I was doing at work.

Rachel Humphrey 23:18

what an incredible role model you get to be for him as well as he takes on any next steps as he builds a family too. And so great to have a support system at home as well as one at work over the course of your career and I spanning now, as we talked about a couple have you had mentors or champions that really stand out to you along the way? People who have really advocated for you, whether you knew they were doing it or not.

Terri Haack 23:44

Yes I think I have two kind of buckets. I have the bucket of what I would call my observation of people that I don't wanna be like, and I study their behaviors. I study how they make people feel, and. Focused on, I am never gonna do that, or I'm going to, never is a long word, but I am never, ever going to make someone feel as this person has just made me feel. Many of my mentors early on were all men, and they looked at me as a serious business person first. And I think that. Comes across, hopefully as I build my personal brand that I'm serious about the work that I do, but I'm also a very kind person. And I think that as I moved forward and as I looked to emulate people in our industry, I always looked at the people who were kind first and then. Good business people second, and I wouldn't wanna say just one or two names because I'll forget somebody, and then somebody will be texting me saying, why didn't you say me

Rachel Humphrey 25:03

What a powerful message. And I have not heard this from you before, but what a powerful message that as you look to grow, you can have the people that you want to emulate. And then on the direct opposite of that, you can have the people, you don't want to. That is really a powerful thought and thank you for sharing that. I think that's really important. We, as I mentioned to you, we are gonna run out of time at our 30 minutes or so because there's so much I wanna continue to learn from But one of my favorite questions always to be asked and why I think it's so important, When we ask it now is what advice would we give to our younger selves? And part of it for me is that I love to learn from you. but I also think reflection and growth is such a critical part of our journey as leaders of hospitality industry. <AFFIRMATIVE> participants. And so what I knew 25 years ago may have been very successful and it continued to be a part of me. But there are other things that of course I have learned along the way that I wish I could have told myself then. what would you tell your 22 year old self?

Terri Haack 26:05

That was a very long time ago, I know that I would tell my 22 year old self that. It is not about you. Early on it was all about success getting ahead, and I would have told myself, take a deep breath. It is about others that you are leading and they will lead you to. and I feel really strongly about that because I was so focused and I knew what I was going to be doing since I was 15 and a half and it was about success. And then I've learned over the years it is about all the others around you. And if you can allow them to be the best version of themselves, they will help you be successful. They will create your success. and I feel really strongly about that.

Rachel Humphrey 27:03

That's incredible. Do you get the opportunity to share that now with your teams and in conversations with others on how you learned that?

Terri Haack 27:12

I try to when I was leaving ter, which was very difficult to do. Each person who came to me and they were nervous about change, and I reminded them that their star was not tied to me. It was tied to what they were doing every single day. And have confidence in that, and you will be successful, continue to be successful. And it's change is okay. It's refreshing. It allows the resort to go to a different level and, but it's hard. To help people, I think, see in them what in them. And if you can take that time and help them see their own personal successes in there, and they're not just a housekeeper or just a, service manager, they can be whatever they want to be. But you, I think you have to bring that out. That's your role. Take the roadblocks out of their thinking so they can be

Rachel Humphrey 28:15

successful. And I think that ties back to the start of our discussion about letting them see themselves, how you see them. But what a special message for sure. So d e i advisors our goal is to empower personal success and we've covered a lot of ground and there's a lot that we didn't get to cover. But what would be one piece of final advice you would have for our viewers as they are continuing their paths to leadership?

Terri Haack 28:38

The first thing, and I think I began by saying this, I congratulate you and d e i advisors, the work that you're doing is really remarkable and really, Setting the pathway for so many women. I would say be all that you can be. Learn the business of the business, but still be kind. And always be kind. And early on I knew I was good at hospitality. It was in my blood. I have a desire to please, but then I learned the business of the business and all the way through my career, it didn't matter how complicated my role was. I always remained kind and I think that we all need to do that. You can be the best, the highest paid person in the world, but if you're not kind I don't think you're really successful. That

Rachel Humphrey 29:31

is a fantastic place to call it a day cuz there is no better messaging out there. Terry, as I am a. Giant fan of yours. I continue to be inspired by what I learned from you, what I hear you sharing with others, and I am so grateful that you took some time out of your day to spend with us at D e I advisors. But thank you so much for your leadership in the industry and all that you continue to

Terri Haack 29:54

do. Thank you, and I admire you so much, Rachel. Thank you so much. Bye.