Suzanne Mellen, Senior Managing Director, HVS interviewed by Lan Elliott

Suzanne shares why and how she started the 2nd HVS office in the mid-80s, a time when it was rare for women to own businesses.  She discusses how she handles contentious situations and how she has evolved her leadership style to match the person she’s working with.  Suzanne also shares advice on how to advocate for yourself, why building and sustaining [business] relationships should be a priority, and the importance of finding balance in your life – because life goes quickly, but it’s also a marathon.

Transcript

Lan Elliott: 0:02

Hello and welcome to DEI Advisors. My name Lan Elliot on behalf of DEI Advisors, and one of my favorite things about doing these interviews is the opportunity to learn from people that I've admired over the course of my career. And Suzanne Mellon is definitely one of them, so I'm really thrilled to have her here. Welcome

Suzanne Mellen: 0:22

Suzanne. Thank you so much land. Really honored to be here.

Lan Elliott: 0:26

So pleased to talk with you. So when I started my my hotel career in hotel real estate consulting in the early nineties, you really stood out to me because you were the only woman that I knew that who. That owned her own business. Of course, I'm talking about the HBS office, which was the second HBS office ever that she opened in San Francisco in 1985. And now there are many HBS offices around the world offering appraisals and other services to clients. And you've expanded your practice now to Las Vegas and Los Angeles, so very successful business that you've. Can you share some of the key inflection points of your journey and maybe the story behind why you opened the San Francisco office and how you did it?

Suzanne Mellen: 1:13

Sure. I think from a young age, I always wanted to now that I look back, I didn't know it at the time, but I always wanted to be master of my own fate and run my own show. I saw my father had been laid off and when I was very little and was never the same again and had trouble finding jobs, and I was like, That's not gonna happen to me. I think this is all. Conscious. And started working at a young age and ended up hospitality because that's a lot of what the opportunities were in those days, for kids, hospitality jobs. And ended up with a hotel degree, hotel administration degree, and. I started out, I was recruited by a consulting firm in Canada, and it was clear that I had that kind of analytical talent, if you will, and and a long story, but that didn't work out because they messed up my immigration papers, what have you, and ended up back in operations, which I actually loved in New York. But in those days you could not go anywhere. As a woman, it was very male dominated in. I still remember I just, There are people who. You know that you could just see males with connections that all of a sudden were being put senior to me. And it was just very clear. And I was basically told that there's not much I could get into other than, and there's nothing wrong with these housekeeping and sales, but I was definitely a numbers gal. Very clearly a numbers gal. And so I enter, I answered a job, Hemsley Spirit House fatality services that Steven Brenner ran at the time real estate consulting firm. And they put me in an office. And the office who I shared with was Steve Rushmore. And Steve Rushmore at the time was writing his book on how to appraise hotels, which was a completely new niche. At that time you had ho appraisers who were generalists and didn't really understand the hospi, the hotel industry. So I got to read it as it came off the mimeograph machine, just to date myself, And and then he left to start his firm and I went and worked at a bank and an accounting firm, and then got hired back as his first employee. Back when he, I could tell he was a rising star basically. And I also at that point had already realized that I was not good at playing the political game. Like I would get frustrated when I was at the bank. I was frustrated because it was very much orderly and the accounting firm, very you had to be in the box to succeed. And I was not an in the box kind of a gal, and and not a nine to five gal either. So I thought this is an opportunity. So I joined Steve and helped build up the New York office and then got all my designations and what have you, and it was really time to expand. And so I realized because of the way that the building, the business was structured, I was basically gonna be a licensee and in essence compete with Steve. I knew the further away I would go, the better. So I, that's how I ended up in San Francisco. And it was really just the two offices for. I think it was six or seven years that we were just, the two of us. And so it really wasn't, I didn't have a regional practice at that time. It was really a national practice. We went where our clients wanted us to go. So I was really very blessed because I got to see, gosh, every corner of the country and all different kinds of markets and products and and run my own show basically. And but be part of a larger. Universe, if you will be with Steve. So we got to market ourselves as a larger company, but I still got to have my own employees. And I was really freestanding. I had my own payroll, my own, in those days it was a pension plan, everything, my own health plan, it was completely freestanding, but for the common name, if you will. And and then, we continue to evolve. So ATS has grown through people's entrepreneurial efforts, their own efforts. It hasn't. There's been a central company that says, Let's go open here, Let's go open there. It's when somebody themselves brings themselves up and decides that they want to take the risk and open up their own practice, if you will. Now, it's very different. It's gone through ownership changes I've sold out, but in those days, that's how it grew, which was a smart way to go. If you think about it, it's like the franchising business. If you want to grow a brand, you let other people invest their time in capital. to grow versus the mothership hotel brand doing it. And so a similar model, if you will. So that's how I got there.

Lan Elliott: 5:18

It really reminds me of something we've heard before, which is if you don't if you, if they won't give you a seat at the table, go and build your own table. Yeah. Which is what I really feel like you did. And you took those risks to go and start your own business and been hugely successful at it. As much as you've been successful in your career that doesn't mean that there aren't challenges that people have along the way. Can you talk a little bit about your approach to challenges and how you handle them?

Suzanne Mellen: 5:52

Sure. I think, I think a lot of times when I was in the midst of a challenge, I wasn't even aware. I was in the midst of a challenge. I think I was working so hard, I was not very mindful. It's more of a, that's more of a modern concept. I was just working very hard and being very wi. I was always very, intuitive about what was going on, watching what was going on, trying to. Make inroads where I could, if you will. And and I learned, and things have changed so much, but in those days people didn't even think of really mentoring women so much because you were gonna go get married or something and not need to work. But so finding mentors is challenge, was challenging, but you had find your own way. And I realized, A lot of the people that we interacted with were mostly men, and a lot of times they didn't give you the time of day. Men just didn't listen very much to you. And I realized, you know what? I'm as smart or even smarter than some of these people. I'm gonna make it, I'm gonna make a name for myself. And I decide. And that was supported by just the how the firm hv. Evolve. The idea was credibility marketing, that if you make yourself very accomplished and credible, people will come to you. Versus now the industry's more mature and people are very much into contacts, who knows who and, contacts, if you're providing a service where you, it's not even used regularly necessarily. You don't know. These people are always moving, So it's like you could identify or contact Kathryn as a client and. Then all of a sudden they've gone somewhere else and they're not necessarily there to be your client anymore. But if you become a name and do your own branding, if you will, and develop credibility and expertise, then people, no matter are they come to you and then they, word of mouth, they say, Oh, you should go to this person. And that's really I would say is how I did. And I think that's also how Steve Rushmore did it that way. He wrote the book on how to praise hotels and other things too that I participated in with him. And I think that's really how the firm. Grew faster that we're relatively new firm. We grew pretty quickly and it was due to that. Yeah. I dunno if that answered your question. I of went on there a bit, but

Lan Elliott: 8:02

No, I think you did. I think it was a challenging time to bring, to build a small practice in an area of the industry that wasn't really well known. They're obviously a lot of consultants now. But specifically doing appraisals which Steve pioneered as hospitality specific appraisals. Exactly. You had to really establish who you were and how you built a book of business, along those lines. You had mentioned about how you make contacts and how you build your business. And you're an introvert like me, so putting yourself out there probably doesn't come naturally. But you've had to do it to build your business. How do you tailor your networking efforts so that it is authentic to you, to your personality?

Suzanne Mellen: 8:42

Sure. I think I'm on the borderline introvert extrovert. I enjoy. Talking out. I love public speaking. give me something that I'm passionate about. I'll get up there and talk wherever I am. And I also enjoy very much getting to know people. So when I'm on a one-on-one with people I can really focus and zoom in and connect with them. And then that, that brings meaning to me and I can be my authentic self. Where I'm not so good is when I'm just in a chit chat round robin with people, and people are just making small. That doesn't do it for me. And so it's realizing that I had to change my when I would first walk into a cocktail party, I'd have to figure out what's, if I was feeling uncomfortable, I would try and identify. An individual to talk to. And a lot of times there were individuals who were or who were alone. I still remember going to one cocktail party, I think it was Steve Ock, a CEO Hilton, like he was just out there standing all by himself and I just went up and I started talking to him. He's out there feeling just as awkward as everybody else. And so just realizing that everybody's got some of that. Not everybody, some many people have that little bit of that. I. Part of their personality and realizing we're all in the same boat and just trying to really tune in and be authentic. I think that's the most important thing because I'm not good at putting on any kind of facade, I'm just, you, you get what so that's how I did it.

Lan Elliott: 10:03

Yeah. That's really great advice and I think yeah. Great advice on what to do when you walk into that cocktail party and you don't know a lot of people there. Yeah. And who would've thought Steve Bollenbach would be standing by himself and you have the opportunity to go up and talk to him. Good for you for doing that. I wanted to touch a little bit on continuous growth. Because you're one of the experts in your field. How do you make sure you're continuing your own personal growth, whether it's, keeping up on technical subjects, on leadership trends in the industry, What resources do you turn. Sure.

Suzanne Mellen: 10:38

Back some decades ago when I was doing this, there weren't the resources that are they are today. And so you really had to spend more time digging and talking to people and finding out what's going on now, Boy, information is at your fingertips. I was just thinking about that. I watched a webinar earlier this morning about the capital. There is so much out there. I, you could just spend your whole day educating yourself. It's very different than it was. We didn't have even str if you wanted to find out what was going market, you had to be knocking on doors to try and find out how people were performing. So completely different world. I would say in, in those days you just had to be out there talking to people, doing your research. You'd have to do it, knocking on doors in cities, you didn't have any publicly, no internet, but now it's pretty much, you can do your research to stay on top of what's going on the, in, in the industry pretty easily. But what I've found is that now, and I should say, I'm at the tail end of my career. I've sold out I'm winding down how much time I'm spending. Doing consulting evaluation, and I'm looking onto my next chapter. And and so now I am looking into different things that are helping me grow. Again, I'm leaning into different activities and, just getting involved with, there's so many things, Sorry, just drop my head. So many things to to explore. It's almost like my, I have this full plate of things. I have to decide where to put. My energy. There's just so much to do out there. Courses to take and. Things to attend, either virtually in person, but, I just wanna backtrack a little bit. When I I skipped my whole, over my whole career when I was managing people, one of my big growth areas was how to manage people. I never really learned how to manage people, if you will. I just did it by the seat of my pants. So I did things like I took Steven Covey is was a big, I took and I first went off, sent my off myself off on their executive training course. So it's seven Habits of Highly Effective People and that was great. I got to meet other executives and learned a lot from that. And then when I came back, I took my whole team off and we went and did a retreat based on seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And that was you. Just a great learning experience for all of us. And then, I've done multiple of those trans emergent trans emergence, which is what Kimpton calls Kimpton Hotels, calls their secret sauce, and the base of that is the Enneagram. And that was really helpful because I found out what kind of person I was in, how I interate with people, and then how what made other people tick. And that really changed how I. Related to people because I can be very all over the place. And I found out there are a lot of people who, people would leave my office and they'd go, Oh my God, what did she just say to me? And she wants me to do this analysis. And she threw out all these ideas, but I don't know where to start. And I realized I needed to. Go more linearly. Still be creative, but more linearly. There's some people who really need that. And then there are also people who need to be heart touched. They're more emotional and they need to be emotionally touched first. So I used to just be bang out, business emails. And then I, now I step back and I go, How can I start this email in a more connecting manner? And take some time to do that. Where I didn't used to do that at all. I was like, everybody's supposed to be in business. Hunker down and just do what you're supposed to do. So I've learned, I know I've grown and learned in those ways. It's not just how you grow and learn, your trade if you will, but personal growth too. Realizing where you need to spend some time evolving.

Lan Elliott: 14:02

That's a wonderful thing you talked about, just getting to know your team so that you know how to manage each of them maybe in a different way, understanding how your style is different than theirs. And I've done that as well with my team in the past, and I found it so valuable in tailoring my approach to, to, to each person and how I said something, might be received one way from one person differently from another. Totally

Suzanne Mellen: 14:24

very helpful to do that. Yeah. Yeah. And I wish that more. Bosses or managers would do that. I think a lot of the evolved firms do that, I

Lan Elliott: 14:33

think. Yeah. Yeah. It's great tools that are out there now that you can do that. Yep. Yeah, you had touched a little bit on mentors and champions and you'd said that when you started in the industry that men didn't really mentor women cuz they thought you'd be leaving soon to go start a family. And that was when you started in your career? I've also encountered it as well even though I started a bit later. And so I don't know if it's still around for young women. Who are coming up, but there are definitely more women in the industry now, but can you share a little bit about maybe the importance of mentors or champions and how they might have helped you or, the importance of them generally in, in advancing your career? Yeah,

Suzanne Mellen: 15:15

absolutely. I was a bit challenged in having appropriately supportive mentors, if you will. Of course, Steve Rushmore afforded me the opportu. To get out and open my own office. So I very grateful to him for that. But I think, but then I became a mentor, so I got to see, what helped the employees that I had. And I would say that, I would just recommend that you never be shy of reaching out to people who you think can be a mentor, and even if they're, they may not be a mentor, maybe they're your boss and maybe they're, that's not gonna be the appropriate relationship to not be shy to have a conversation with them just to say, Hey, I'd to touch in, I'd like to see what's going, where I am in my career and my education, or what have you. Input in from them and from other people that you meet in the industry, even clients that you meet or just say, Would you have five or 10 minutes I'd like to talk with you about where I might be headed in my career. And cuz people generally speaking are flatter that you ask them about that question and then they're happy to share. And I think if I had done more of that and I look back and I go, Why didn't I do more of that? That I might have ended up in a different place because I. I wasn't getting enough outside input, if you will into where I might go. And so I would just encourage people to do that. In fact, people who have done that with me and I've always been a big proponent of don't stay here. If you're not growing and loving your job, go and find the next opportunity. And a lot of people that have worked on for me have gone on to very interesting careers and. That it's just, it's goodness that you can encourage and support people and say, and now, and not every boss is that way. Some bosses don't wanna know that you're thinking of other opportunities. So hopefully you're gonna figure out who you can ask that question now before you start asking and they're talking to them. But I would just not be shy and people like, To to be mentors and to help, I think.

Lan Elliott: 17:13

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's true. I think, I don't know if it's specific to our industry, but I do find that when you reach out and ask people for help it's very rare in our industry that someone will say no. So I think That's one of the great things about being in hospitality. Yeah. And I think though, it's a little bit scary to put yourself out there and be vulnerable and ask people for advice about your career. So I think that definitely holds people back from doing that. And I know early in my career I felt as. One of the only women to that I had to know how to do things. I had to figure things out from by myself. Rather than asking for help and I agree with you, I might be in a different place as well if I had asked for help more along the way. It's really a wonderful advice to do that. You could take

Suzanne Mellen: 17:54

it as the smart thing to do, not that it.

Lan Elliott: 17:57

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yep. So a common generalization that's out there is that women don't do a good job of advocating for themselves And that's one of the reasons that holds them back from getting promotions or raises or other things that they look for. But you've obviously had to advocate for yourself and your business throughout your career. What would you tell people who are struggling to find their voice?

Suzanne Mellen: 18:22

That's a really good question. I guess you just have to get really. Clear on what you're looking for, what you're, what is your, where is your message or what is your story, and really do a self assessment, if you will. I've had my daughter do that a bit before. She had a recent conversation with her boss. List all those incredible talents that you have and read it again before you talk with them and. Just take it in. And then whatever you're trying to do to advocate for yourself, make sure you're picking the right time and that you're gonna get that person's attention. And then also be aware of what, where they're coming from because you, you may meet some resistance. You gotta I, I hate to say you gotta, but it's I suggest you also try and put yourself in the other person's shoes because they also have all this, these concerns, maybe financial concerns or for their business or, concerns about keeping parity amongst employees or all. There's all sorts of things that you can't, or they may just be having a bad day. You just gotta think. Where are they coming from and trying to tune in with them and not, Cause sometimes people who advocate for themselves just go bulldog because they're so anxious about doing it, they just come on to strong and they're not, having a a back and forth conversation. So I would just say, just be, try and be as confident as possible. Get really clear in what you're looking for and and then go for it. What's the, I think the key is what can you have to lose? What do you have to. And and so just go for it, and if it doesn't turn out, like if it pushes the wrong button, then you might say, You know what? I'm glad I found out that this push. Somebody's button, and do I wanna stay with somebody when me just coming up with a conversation like this is pushing their button. But but anyway, advocating yourself at every step of the way, no matter what you're doing, selling, performing consulting, realize what you have to offer and it's just as valuable as anybody else's opinion on

Lan Elliott: 20:17

things. That's great. I love the part about having confidence going for it, but then also making sure that you're listening and that you're thoughtful about what the other person's perspective is. Because if you come in of all the things that you want and you haven't thought about, How it's going to be received and what are their needs. You may not be very successful, so really great to think about it from both sides of it before you go into the conversation. Yep. A challenge that women leaders sometimes face is this perception that you can't be both competent and kind. So if you're too nice, you probably don't have the skills to be a leader. And if you are a little bit too assertive, a little too hard charging, it's not received well when coming from women. And so it also prevents you from getting what you need to get done. And. You've had to walk this tight rope a lot in your career. You've had some very difficult conversations along the way. For example, when you give someone an appraisal that is not gonna get them the bank alone that they want. Like you sometimes have to deliver bad news to people. How do you find the right balance of of being. But being competent, being direct, right? Sure.

Suzanne Mellen: 21:31

I guess I, I go into any conversation hoping that the other person is gonna, be a reasonable mind and willing to listen. And that's often not the case, but I go into it trying to be nice and professional and what have you. And then when I find that people are, Gosh. Cuz you can really have a lot of unreasonable clients and client expectations. I can really get my dander off and I and I just come at it and sometimes I have to come back and say, God and just tone it down a bit. But there's something, and this has been with me for my whole career even where I, when somebody is questioning my either integrity, my intelligence. What I'm doing or anything like that, it just gets me so mad because I'm like, I'm trying to do the right thing. I'm not somebody who's, so I, it just pushes my button and I snap come right out and try and make it clear. And then then usually I, then I kind that brings it back, brings them back into focus. Okay, this woman's serious. I can't manipulate her, and there have been a couple times when people have said, Let's just call it a day and we end up ending the phone call, But, for the most part that it gets people to come around and realize that I want respect and that's what I demand is respect. And if they're not gonna respect me, I'm just not gonna engage because it's, it. That just and people do this to women, many people, but to women especially, where they don't respect them for the smart, capable, incredible people that they are. And Gosh, that gets me going. You can tell. So that's what I would suggest is that people come on, you come on direct and then, and you may, then I come back and soften sometimes if I've been, I apologize, say sorry I came on so strong, but I really believe in this strongly. Or I just wanted to clarify where we were at and I just backed a little bit if I've been little sharp. So just if if you feel it in here, sometimes you just have to come out. to be appropriately assertive, and there are times when I should feel like I should have been assertive and I just wasn't. I'd be sitting there going, Oh God, here we go again. And I just decide to just let it go because you can't keep that edge on all the time. So yeah, pick your battles,

Lan Elliott: 23:44

that's great advice to do that. Yes, absolutely. Probably going to be very difficult if you don't pick your battles and figure out, and choose your places where you're going to stand your ground. Exactly. Like in any

Suzanne Mellen: 23:56

relationship,

Lan Elliott: 23:56

so looking back on your journey one of our favorite questions at DEI advisors is what what advice would you offer your 22 year old self? What do you wish you would've known when you were younger? Yeah,

Suzanne Mellen: 24:12

I think looking back now, I wish I had put more time into building. And of course, where would I have found the time? I don't know. But more time into building and sustaining relationships and staying connected to people and asking for advice that we already talked about earlier. Reaching out to people for input. I was in such a, tunnel vision of purging my career that I didn't do that enough. And I think today that's much easier because there's maybe you can do it, LinkedIn and social media and all the rest of it. In fact I need to do it. I'm gonna like maybe take a course in LinkedIn so I can get with it. But I see the benefit of all those. Apps or programs or whatever you will for my kids who are now in their early careers, and I'm like, Wow, that's just the power of that. Staying connected to people and being able to, post things and create your own brand. My daughter's all into that and it just it's just so powerful. You can be out there. And cast a wide net. And then put some energy into reaching out to people to make connections and build relationships. I think that's what I would, if I could go back, that would've been my advice to my younger self.

Lan Elliott: 25:20

I would've loved that as well when I was younger to have done more of that. Yeah. Yeah.

Suzanne Mellen: 25:25

It's hard when you're in the grind. I have,

Lan Elliott: 25:27

I, that's very true. That's true. When you have your nose to the grindstone, it's hard to pick up. Your head and look around and say, I need to connect with more people. They say that sometimes you shouldn't meet your heroes, but I disagree because I so enjoyed speaking with you, Suzanne. And we're getting close on time and I could keep asking you more questions but. Let me ask you this. If you could share maybe one last piece of advice for our viewers, keeping in mind that the mission of DEI advisors is empowering personal success, what final bit of advice would you offer? For women and underrepresented groups who are looking to advance their careers? Sure.

Suzanne Mellen: 26:06

I would say try and be the best that you can be. Really excel, do your homework sharpen your tools, work hard so that when people will notice you, people notice good talent and they will give you opportunities because there's a desperate need for. Talent out there. So I would say do that. But I would say also, this is another thing I would advise myself when I was younger, Make time for your personal life. Try and squeeze in some balance because life goes quickly, but it's also a marathon. And I look back and I think of all the times that I, wish I had taken some time for myself. So make sure you squeeze those in. Take a little time for yourself, however, whatever it is, and then schedule a next one a month or six months later so that you are always having something to look forward to. And that way when you're working hard, building your skills, you know that you have a break coming up where you can just be you, and give yourself a little breather. And recharge.

Lan Elliott: 27:08

I love that self care is such an important thing that we didn't think about as much before, but is is a really great way to balance, especially with your advice to, to work hard and be really good at your craft and also finding ways to take time for yourself in between.

Suzanne Mellen: 27:22

Exactly. Exactly. And let me say admire you too, land. Thank you so much. It's been such a joy getting to know you more through this whole process.

Lan Elliott: 27:31

Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay. Good luck everyone. Good luck everyone. And for our viewers, if you would like to, if you've enjoyed this video with with Suzanne, I hope you will go to our website, dei advisors.org where you can find other videos with other industry leaders. Thank you so much.

Suzanne Mellen: 27:50

Thanks so much. Have a good afternoon. Bye.