Chip Ohlsson, Chief Development Officer, Planet Fitness, interviewed by Rachel Humphrey

Chip shares his career path from dishwasher to chief development officer, showcasing an entire career in the service industry.  He discusses the importance of knowing your values and how he chooses making decisions which are right versus ones which are easy. Chip also talks about the importance of relationships, how he's managed a demanding career on the road while also prioritizing time with his family, and why he believes it can be more effective to make your strengths stronger than to focus too much on your weaknesses.

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Rachel Humphrey 0:02

I am Rachel Humphrey with d e i advisors. We are a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering personal success in the hospitality industry. And I am delighted today to welcome to the show, one of my industry favorites, chip Olson of Wyndham Hotels and Resorts. Chip, welcome to d e i advisors.

Chip Ohlsson 0:19

Rachel, thanks so much for having me, and it truly is an honor to participate in this series. Uh, So thank you very much for.

Rachel Humphrey 0:27

Chip, we're gonna jump right in. Spend about 30 minutes together today just talking about your path to leadership and some of the things that you've learned along the way. And I wanna jump right in on the journey to leadership. One of the things that I personally love about the hospitality industry so much is that we can have. Paths, which are very unique to us yet end up similarly in leadership positions. So tell us a little bit about your path to where you are today, and then for any pivotal moments maybe along that career that helped impact that direction for you.

Chip Ohlsson 0:59

Wow. We're jumping. We're jumping right in. Jumping right in. Yeah, I, my path, was unconventional. But not when you hear other people's stories in leadership especially in the hospitality industry. I started out my first job was 14 years old. I worked at a restaurant, I worked as a dishwasher and worked my way up to eventually going out into the dining room and then from there, Going behind the bar and learning what true customer service was and how what you did was a direct impact on your income. But one of the things that I try to tell everybody is, You can have, like you said, you could have these different paths to go. Nothing is set in stone. What you need to do is have that vision and have an idea of what you want to do. I knew where I grew up. My mother was a nurse. My father was a truck driver. They got divorced when I was very young. I was two years old. And so my mother raised us and we lived in South Jersey. And. In our town, there were two sides of the tracks we say right there, people that lived on Long Beach Island, which was a very affluent area, and there are people that lived in the Manahawkin area, which is me. And it drove me. I saw the success that other people had and I wanted that success not realizing the whole time that both my mother and father are achieved great success in their respective fields. I think I was a little too young to realize that. Having that chip on my shoulder, no pun intended but having that chip on my shoulder, when I went off to college, I was the first one to go to college and I went to a small little state school, and how we defined success was interesting. If I look back at how I defined success early on, Compared to what it is today. I just thought I, we had one vacation when I was a kid to Walt Disney World, and I just thought if I could ever be that person where somebody waited for me with that sign that said, your car is waiting for you, Mr. Olson. I said, that's the ultimate for success. Of course when you get that and you do it the first two times and you're like, please don't wait for me anymore. I'll meet you outside I'll just meet you and we'll get going cuz Time was more precious. but that's how I defined success early on, and then you find out later. Success to me was about leadership, was about getting a team and having other people succeed. That, to me, is true success. It wasn't about me as an individual, but how I could influence others.

Rachel Humphrey 3:13

That's incredible. And how about getting from that those early years of experience through into the development career that you have today, what did that path look like for you

Chip Ohlsson 3:23

as I said, I I bartended about eight years and behind the bar I always had a stack of resumes. because you never know who you're gonna meet on the other side of the bar. And so I met a bunch of people who worked at a company called hfs, which is the precursor to Wyndham, who's hfs send in Wyndham. And I just thought it was the coolest thing that they worked at a corporate office. I, I never knew we, you could work in corporate offices and with the path that I was taking. And so I met them I started building a relationship, which as is very important to me in the network and build relationships. but on the way up the door, I said, I have to go. And the one person that was left said, oh, where you headed? And I said, I'm going to get Billy Joel Elton John tickets. And they said, I love Billy Joel, Elton John. And I said, I'll tell you what. I'll get you two tickets to Billy Joel, Elton John, if you take my resume into your boyfriend who happened to be in sales at hfs. And so I showed up in the office a couple weeks later with, or a week later, I should say with my resume. They called down and said, chips here, and she said, who? Her's, the bartender. And her boyfriend really appreciated the hustle and the fact that I did the follow up and did everything I said I was gonna do, which was a valuable lesson to me. When you tell somebody you're gonna do something, do it, and they respect that and they'll try and help you anyway they can. That's great. And so started out in sales and worked my.

Rachel Humphrey 4:44

People who've been listening to the show know that I always love to share why I have selected certain leaders to participate as advisors. And it is always because they have said or done something along the path in my career that has really had an impact or an inspiration on me. And I have never shared this with you before, but one of my very. Meetings when I pivoted from law firm life over to the association world was with you in Parsiphony and we were talking and you said, I remember every hotel I've ever sold that I am so grateful because every one of those has given me the life that I have today, a home security for my family. And you listed several other things and. I was so deeply impacted by a leadership style that incorporated. What was absolutely evident to me at that point was a heartfelt sense of gratitude. And gratitude plays a big role in who I am and in my leadership, and I just really felt that in that moment. Hearing you talk about it not as sales, not as deals, not as, not even as money, but just I owe every one of those deals what I have today and I have just been incredibly impacted by that and I appreciate. That sense of leadership and that place that you come from deep inside. So thank you for that. Whether or remember the comments or not,

Chip Ohlsson 6:11

I look, I appreciate that, but it's true. I'm only as good as the people I work with and the people that have brought me along the path. And the thing that surprises me or that I learned, I should say, is that you never know. Who influences you and who has a change in your life. And there were so many little moments in my life where somebody has said something or done something that's put a profound impact on my style of leadership or what I, what my goals were in life that I look back and say, I better be buttoned up and I better make sure that I do the same for others and just pay it forward. Yeah. No,

Rachel Humphrey 6:46

I love that. you talked in your path to leadership a lot about the importance of relationship building Yeah. And networking. And certainly this industry both requires it and thrives on it. And those who know, that your network, your relationships are very important to you, are very authentic to you. How do you think that your personality has really shaped how you build that network? How you build those relat? Maybe different than others or something that's very particular to your style.

Chip Ohlsson 7:15

It, it's just been interesting to me. Relationships are everything. And it goes back to even when I was a little kid, I heard something that said success as many fathers, but failure as an or orphan. And what I realized later on is, Failure is an orphan because if you don't have a network around you, if you're not getting ideas, if you're not getting diversity of thought in a room to help you become a better leader or a better person, then it is an orphan cuz you're alone by yourself trying to build your career or trying to get ahead and no one does it alone. If you surround yourself with great people, if you surround yourself with great leaders, if you try to learn all along the way, then it becomes an easier path to, to move to your destination. It's very important for me to. Have that destination to have that vision. And it started back in 1993. I remember when I first started at this company, I had that vision of what I wanted and I had to strip away all the noise and all the other things. And too many people get bogged down with the small things and. it was that relationships that I built all along the way from my first customer that I ever did business with, which I still talk to the group today who I'm very close with, even though they're not doing deals anymore, it doesn't matter. I know what they meant to me. And the funny thing is I happen to be driving down to Baltimore just this week for a conference and. I decided to stop in and see some of the first people I ever did business with who we haven't done business together in probably 15, 20 years. And I stopped in just to say hello, and as we were sitting there I said, oh, I know we did a deal right across the street. He goes, oh yeah, that was my brother. Brother-in-law and I said it was, he goes, yeah, he asked me what brand to go with. He goes, and because we still stay in touch, I told him, that when a Windham brand to be the best for him, and so he reached out to your salespeople. And all this happened without me knowing or without realizing that the impact of 20 years ago and staying in touch with those people still had an impact today, even though they weren't doing business, they were influential in others doing business. And so what I try to tell everybody, Those relationships are paramount to everything that you can do, and you don't get into a relationship to find out what you can get out of the relationship. It's what you give to that relationship that you'll get back. I think. the Beatles had a great line, which was on one of the songs that says, end in the end, the love you make is equal to the love you take. And I think that's right. I think that you've gotta, if you want to put out a relationship, if you want to get ahead, you've gotta put that out there and you've gotta be that person and represent that. And if you do that, you'll get it back in.

Rachel Humphrey 9:50

I can say for certainty, that's the first Beatles lyrics that have been quoted on te EI advisors, at least in my interviews. But you just said, that's a

Chip Ohlsson 9:58

show of my age, I think at this point. I

Rachel Humphrey 10:00

love that. Nobody does it alone. Absolutely true. I love the fact too, that you talked about stopping in to see old customers because you knew what they had meant to you, which is the exact gratitude. Impact that I was just sharing with you of knowing deep inside and still really honoring and feeling that. Great advice and I appreciate sharing how the relationship building and networking has really advanced you.

Chip Ohlsson 10:22

So many people think that we, that they get ahead on their own or maybe there was one person that pushed 'em and drove them and did it, and it's just not the case. Even when getting, my opportunity to leave my, the team here I found out that. Jeff our c e o reached out to multiple people and I was just blessed that I kept in contact with those people all these years later. And even though we weren't doing business together, they were like, yeah, that's the type of person you wanted the company. And and I don't find out about this till years later or maybe through somebody else. And people do so many things behind the scenes that you just don't realize that impact

Rachel Humphrey 10:57

your life. Yeah. And like you said, what genuine relat. Continue to deliver for a lifetime. I wanna switch over to continuous growth for a second. you have shared with me that you are a strong believer in taking your strongest skillset Yeah. And making it stronger, not necessarily developing skills where you may have. Weaker or greater opportunities, which some might consider to go against the grain. Yeah. Of not kinda honing in on what do I need to do better. Talk to me a little bit about that mindset and really how you think that your path has benefited from developing your stronger skills to be even stronger.

Chip Ohlsson 11:37

Yeah, I, it was a I think it was a book. It might have been Setting the Table by Danny Meyer. Where it talks about that a little bit. And also a bunch of the Malcolm Gladwell books where it talks about, 10 Malcolm Gladwell talks about 10,000 hours right. In tipping point. And to get better at something, you wanna be noticed and you want to be an a player in something that you do. And one of the things that I recognized early on when I had my first when I became a VP in the organization, I had people that were maybe terrible at paperwork, and I did everything I could to get them to become great at the paperwork piece of it. And saying that, don't you wanna be well-rounded? Isn't it important for you to be well-rounded? And what I found is they didn't enjoy that piece of it. That's why they weren't. Good at it. They didn't enjoy it. So when I was sitting there talking to 'em about it, they were really shutting down. They were saying to themselves, oh God, we're gonna talk about paperwork again today. We're gonna talk about where my reports are in it. And then I talked to them and I said, Hey, you're pretty good at presenting. You're a solid 75% at presenting. Let's get you up. They enjoyed that. And so they perked up and you could see it in their eyes, you could see it in their expressions that they were doing it. And what I said is, you know what, if you're 30. capacity, your paperwork. I can do everything I can to raise you 20 points and you're gonna be at 50%, which is still failing, amongst everything that we do. But if you're 75% at something, and I move you 20 points. And by the way, you're more likely to move because you enjoy doing it, right? So you're listening more than you ever have before, and all of a sudden you start getting better and better at it, and you start building that confidence in yourself of what you do. All of a sudden you're at 95%, you're an A player in that. And when you get in front of a room full of people and you start presenting as an A player, you start to feel that and you can feed off of that. And so what I said, You know what? That's what I'm gonna focus on. I'm gonna focus on somebody's strengths and drive those strengths. Now in their weaknesses, I need to recognize the weaknesses. I need to talk to them about their weaknesses, and then we need to solve together and find a solution to, to, so that it doesn't manifest itself into something bigger and worse.

Rachel Humphrey 13:37

and it's such a unique perspective and one that makes perfect sense when you lay it out as far as the growth opportunities. I wanna pivot a little bit to talking about work life management, if you will. most people talk about it mostly for women, but lots of us. Have experiences where our husbands or our partners are also working. And you are a dad of three? A husband. Yes. And work-life management also can be more than just child rearing. We talk about it mostly there, but it can be trying to find time for your partner or for hobbies that you enjoy or other types of things. How do you think you've been over the years as a working data careerist who also has a family, and what are some of the lessons maybe you've learned from from that?

Chip Ohlsson 14:17

Yeah. I think if I go back to when I first started the first lesson that I learned is that marriage is a partnership and it is an equal partnership. It is not something that. I was the breadwinner. And so you're home with the kids? Everything I say matters. No. What my wife did in those years, and the sacrifices that she made were, I would say, more important than what I did. I was going out, I was getting insta gratification for what I do, right? Go out, sign a deal, sell the deal. You feel great about it. You come home with a check and that you're rewarded for what you do. Whereas my wife was raising these kids. in essence, by herself on the early years. Cuz I asked her as a favor. I said, for the first six years, I'm gonna ask you a favor. Let me build my career. Let me do everything I can. If you can, stay with the kids, if you can help, do all that. And I, look, I'm there for all the big events, right? I don't wanna make it sound like I was an absentee father cause I wasn't, cuz I, my family is paramount to me, but, the sacrifices that I had to make in order to move my career along I had to do, but you don't recognize that they're making those same sacrifices. I'm sure she would've liked to gone out with her friends one night or maybe gone out to dinner or do something and she couldn't because she was home alone while I was traveling on the road doing it. And so for the first six years it was tough. And then of course, year six comes around and I said, can I please have two more years? And I asked her for a a little bit more. I coached little league for my kids and I talked to my boss at the time and I said, look it's important that I'm involved in my kids' lives and this is what we do, but things like a birthday, if a birthday came up during a conference, which my wife's birthday does come up during one of the big conferences and I miss it every year. I said to her, we're gonna celebrate it on the weekend. Or I said to my kids, Hey, I'm gone this week. Unfortunately I'm traveling and I'm not gonna be home for your exact birthday, but, this Saturday, we're gonna celebrate your birthday like never before. Give me a list of five people you want to go. Tell me what you want to do, pick your restaurant, pick this, pick that. And they would get so excited that they got input into what their birthday celebration was. And then we celebrated on the weekends when I was home and available. But yeah I think understanding that partnership and having that balance and over communicating with your partner. Roles, responsibilities and expectations for each other was really important. Early on in my career.

Rachel Humphrey 16:26

That's such great advice, but also just making plans with the kids and knowing that they know that you're there for them. It may not be in traditional times or specific times, but I love that advice. That's really great. You also talked about the people that have influenced you behind the scenes, sometimes not even knowing it. You've also shared with me that you you focused less on individual people. So and so was a mentor of mine or a champion of mine and more focused on, I've had some really good bosses and some less successful bosses, and I've taken away. Leadership lessons really from both of them. Talk about this way that you adapt your leadership based on watching others who have led you.

Chip Ohlsson 17:06

Yeah. When I first started in the industry I think I, I've had, like you said, I have great bosses and I had bad bosses and I don't consider everybody else boss a bad boss, cuz anytime you can learn. From anybody. I think it's a good opportunity. And one of the lessons that I tell my kids, my my team is that it used to be this saying, win or lose, right? Either we're gonna win or lose. In our world, it's win or learn, right? either I'm gonna win an opportunity or we're gonna learn from that opportunity and we're gonna move forward with that. And so that was a big mantra of mine. And so when I sat down, I wanted to know who I wanted to be as a leader. And I had some leaders that were very, and their thinking and very myopic. And they said, this is how we're gonna do it. This is what it is. And I found out that might not have been my strength going back to the conversation earlier. And if it wasn't my strength, I didn't enjoy it. And so why did I have to act this way? Why did I have to be unauthentic to the customers or to anybody I was dealing with? And so what I learned early on was instead of. Telling you who I am and how important it is that you act like this and you fall into the ranks of what I want. It was much easier for me to change who I was five different times. And so if I have somebody on my team that was, One way I could pivot who I was as an as a leader and say, fear and intimidation don't work with this individual. That's not the motivation they need. What they need is somebody on their side pulling them up and bringing them along with them side by side. And then maybe there's somebody else that only operated on deadlines. And so giving them deadlines where the other person didn't react to it. And so understanding that along the way WA was super important to me. Because. I need to be authentic to who I am, but it's very easy to manage different styles as opposed to trying to get somebody to change their styles to work with me.

Rachel Humphrey 18:50

That's great advice, really being able to be adaptable like that. We hear a lot more about that today maybe than we did when you and I first started out. So to recognize that. Earlier on forever ago. To recognize that earlier on though, to really be able to see that would be a successful leadership style. And I wanna talk about another thing that's been really impactful in your leadership style, which is in some form or another, as you mentioned since you were 14 years old, you've been in the service industry. Yeah. And I know you and I've spent a lot of time with you, and you are service. So talk about how being in a service industry for your entire career has really impacted, again, your leadership

Chip Ohlsson 19:28

style. I think it, it comes down to, and something when I took, you take the personality test, you take all these different things and it talks about who you are as a leader how you, you're gonna move ahead. One of the things that was interesting is when I first started, the people around me all had different traits than I had, and I didn't know if I could be a leader. And that was concerning to me. Cause I, I had a goal that I wanted to run an organization or run a team, I should say, not organization. And I didn't know if that was gonna be it. And what the service industry taught me, which I thought was empathy, was really sympathy for the individuals on the other side, putting yourself in somebody else's shoes. And I always said the difference between empathy and. Is sympathy was putting yourself in somebody else's shoes and feeling what you would feel where empathy is putting yourself in somebody else's shoes and feeling what they feel. And that's where I struggle and I knew that. I know it's a blind spot for me as a leader, cuz I always put myself in the shoe and say, this is what I would do. Oh, you have a sick child, drop 'em off at mom's get into work. Not putting yourself in the shoes and making her. What the service industry does is teaches you to be a little more empathetic and sympathetic towards that. And it also shows you the direct relation of what you put out is what you get back because, and I think everybody should work in the service industry, become a waiter, waitress, bartender, whatever it is, because. when someone's having a bad day, when someone's not going well, it directly relates to you. But if you can turn that person, if you can get a little sunshine in their life, make them a little happier about what they do, then all of a sudden, oops, sorry about that. Then all of a sudden there to gets better. Everything that they're doing is happier and more joy. You've done your job and it started out with me in the service industry, but I was also a cold caller at one point in my life, and my job at and t was to take people that hated their bill, hated the, the cost of doing it all and getting them to sign long-term deals. And the way to do that was connect with that person. And you'll hear that a lot when you talk to my team. That connections are so important to me. Realizing how to connect with an individual. And the way to connect is not worrying about yourself, but rather look across the aisle, look at the person you're doing business with, and finding what their interests are and making that connection and that'll serve you well all throughout.

Rachel Humphrey 21:43

That te Taylors very closely with also your relationship building. So this idea of putting yourself in other shoes or seeing through a different lens is definitely something that you've woven throughout a lot of your different leadership. You told me that you have a couple of personal mantras that have become very important to you. one about knowing your values. And incorporating that into yourself as a leader, and one about making decisions that are right versus making decisions that are easy. Can you tell me a little bit more about those two personal mantras, maybe what it stems from, and then how you incorporate it.

Chip Ohlsson 22:19

Yeah the first about values was really a speaker we had recently actually. And you think you know what you stand for until somebody asks you, Hey, what do you stand for? And it was as simple as the speaker was on a plane one day and. A person turned next to him and he says what's your values? What are the three things that you find more important and hold closer to you than anything else? And he said he dead, stopped and couldn't think of the three things that he stood for. But you're a leader. People should know what you stand for. And so I thought the same thing and I said, What are the three things that are important to me? Number one I believe in loyalty. I think I have a passion for the things that I do because anything worth doing, you better have a passion for doing it. And then integrity and honor and family is paramount, as I said. So I don't even include that into what I do, because to me that's like breathing, it's an essential part of your life you need to do. But when somebody asks you what your values, You better know what you stand for and what you look for in the people you bring onto a team. Because when I talk about culture and one of the things that I wanted to do is change the culture from a sales-driven organization of a bunch of people that were out there trying to get ahead and trying to make themselves successful. If you pivoted that just a little bit and said, stop worrying about your own success and start worrying about other success. it'll come back to you tenfold your own success, right? And when you hire people like that and you fire people that are passionate, that are loyal, that believe in integrity, that aren't doing deals just for the sake of doing deals, but doing the right business for the right people. That's how you build a huge network. That's how you build a huge book of business. That's how you move ahead in life. That's how you get everything you'd ever hoped for and wanted in life. And so having that little bit of a change and realizing that culture isn't built from me, I don't drive a culture. It's the people we bring on board for that really drive the culture here. And so I better number. As I say to my team, as goes the head, so goes the body. So I better show them what I believe in, and I better represent that every day. I better know what it is if I'm gonna do that. And number two, bring in the right people that all have like-minded and wanna believe in the same things.

Rachel Humphrey 24:24

Loyalty and passion and integrity are certainly three values that are both incredibly special, but that you exhibit in your leadership and certainly in your interactions with me. So I appreciate your sharing that. How about on doing what's right versus what's easy?

Chip Ohlsson 24:38

So that was something I I was blessed to attend a leadership conference at West Point, and it was probably one of the most impactful leadership conferences I ever took for one thing and. If you pull up my phone, you'll find two things here. You'll find number one a bunch of advice that I keep notes to myself of what I wanna do. But you, the number two thing you'll find is the cadet prayer. And the cadet prayer, I'll pull it up for you here, is at West Point, and the one thing that it says is, make us choose the harder right? Instead of the easier wrong, and never be content with the half truth, when the whole truth can be won. And the piece that I took from that, The harder right versus the easy or wrong. So many times in our lives when we're making decisions, ugh, that's fine. Let's just go with that. It's easy. Let's go move forward. And I had to stop and I had to say, you know what, it was the easy decision. What was the right decision? Is that really what I wanted to do? Was that the ultimate goal of what we wanted to accomplish is that the vision I had for this team? And so I stopped that and said, no, what's the right decision? And you know what? It's gonna cause me some pain. It's gonna cause me some challenges, but in the long run, it's gonna make us all better. I'm gonna do that. And so having that philosophy and making those decisions, the longer term right decision over the shorter term, easier decision, which may or may not be perceived as wrong at the time, but you know in your heart what's right. And you may not want to go through the work or the pain to do it. But when you do that, it is much more gratifying than anything else you.

Rachel Humphrey 26:10

Chip, that's great advice and I appreciate your sharing it and as I knew cause I could visit with you all day long. We're gonna run short on time. I wanna wrap up thinking about two things. One is, as everybody knows my all-time favorite question about this advice to your younger self. And the reason I love it so much is I think reflection is a really important part of our personal growth and I think that we're all works in progress. So who we were at 21 is certainly entirely different than who we are today. what do you look back and tell 21 year old chip about your path your career, the, all the other pieces to it but really focused on maybe something you wish you had known then

Chip Ohlsson 26:51

I think, I wasn't as confident a as a 21 year. and I didn't believe in myself. I, when I grew up, like I said, we grew up on a different side of the road than some of the affluent people. I was also very short. I was four 11 in high school. I graduated a year earlier than everybody else because my mom couldn't afford daycare, so she got me to school a year earlier. So I was 16 as a senior in high school. I turned 17 in December of that year. but I didn't have that confidence and I didn't believe in myself, and I didn't believe in who I was. And so one of the things I'd go back and say is trust yourself. trust who you are and be real to it. And then I would say to myself, care about your team, your customer, and your network. More than I care about myself. And at the time, at 21 years old, you're full of aggression, you're full of, I wanna go out in the world and I just wanna make a name for myself and I'm gonna run over anybody I need to run over because I've gotta prove myself, I gotta prove myself. You don't have to prove yourself, because if you're true to who you are, then you know, deep inside, if you're real or not real, if you're authentic or not authentic, but if you care about the individuals you're doing business with more than you care about yourself and they care about you, and you can get that, a two-way street working, then in the end, The success that you'll have is be based on not something I did individually, but something that a whole group of community of people that you never expected to drive you to that growth. And you can share that because making it to the top alone and turning and looking to the left and right and having nobody there. Is not enjoyable, but moving ahead and sharing that success. And I can't tell you how many dinners I've had with people that said, I remember when you were in sales and I helped you get here. And I'm like, you know what? You did. You did. And that is so much more enjoyable than being alone at a bar one night having dinner, a alone, because you can't share that success with anybody. And so having that team of people is.

Rachel Humphrey 28:48

Keeping in mind Chip our motto of empowering personal success, what is one piece of final advice that you would share with our listeners?

Chip Ohlsson 28:56

I think number one, have a vision for what you want and don't pay attention to all the noise around you. So many times we get caught up and, just the other day I was talking to somebody who has a great career path ahead of them, and I hope it's with us. And they've been with us for a while, but I said to him, what's your long-term vision? And their answer was to get to the next step. And I said, no, you've gotta understand your destination. How can. Get on a journey and on a path. If you don't know what your final destination is, you don't have to take the same path. You don't have to, go down the same road as other people have gone down. But you need to know where you want to get to because if you do that, every decision you make, you have to ask yourself, does that get to me to where I want to go? There are times in my career where I've taken a step back. From a compensation standpoint, from a title standpoint, from whatever it was, but I knew it was gonna get me further, closer to my ultimate goal. And not further away from where I wanted to be. And when I, when my last company I was, I asked to take over more and I knew it was gonna be twice as much work. And they said your target. Comp can't change and your title can't change, so we're gonna have to pay you less for everything that you do. And I said, okay, but it'll gimme exposure to ultimately what I want to do, which is. Run a development team across the country. And I had three quarters of the US and when the opportunity came up and I sat down with the powers that be, and they said why you? And I said I've also, I've already run three eight quarters of the country for you and this is what I've done and this is, and they were like, you know what? You have You're right. And so it was easy. So understand what that vision is and understand you don't have to be, when we talked about mentors, you don't have to follow the same path as somebody else. And the one thing I will say, stay away from group. too many times we hire people in our own image and frankly, I didn't need a bunch of people that think the way I do because at the end of the day, I have an opinion. I get a vote for what we do. But having different diverse opinions in that room, and whe whether it's male, female, African-American, Asian, it doesn't matter. What matters is they have a different perspective that can help you grow as a leader, as an individual. And when you do that, you'll find out the answer is much more powerful and much, much better than what you would've come on your own or with three other people telling you the same thing that you.

Rachel Humphrey 31:13

That is a great place to wrap things up. Chip, on behalf of my own career journey on behalf of the hospitality industry, thank you so much for your leadership. Most importantly today, thank you for supporting the mission of D E I advisors and sharing your story and also some of the insights that you have learned. But thank you so much for being with us today.

Chip Ohlsson 31:32

Thank you for having me and I, Rachel, I will say this, I think what you guys are doing is so important to this, not just to this industry, but to overall leadership and wish you nothing but success. Thanks

Rachel Humphrey 31:43

Chip. And to our audience, thank you so much for tuning in today. If you like what you heard, we hope you'll head on over to d e i advisors.org and hear from other hospitality industry leaders who likewise are sharing their paths to leadership and the lessons they've learned along the way. We are also now available. Favorite streaming channel for podcasts. So thank you very much and thank you, chip.

Chip Ohlsson 32:03

Thank you.