As the 2023 Chairperson of the American Hotel & Lodging Association, Leslie reflects on the key inflection points of her career journey holding senior positions at Goldman Sachs and GE. She comments on the importance of formal education being a graduate of Howard University and holding an MBA from Harvard. We discussed why our industry is lacking in women and minority representation in "C" suite positions and what should be done to improve it. Leslie also shares her experience and advice on taking risks, approaching challenges and prevailing over setbacks. Finally, Leslie offers her perspectives on work life harmony, her leadership style and the "imposter syndrome".
As the 2023 Chairperson of the American Hotel & Lodging Association, Leslie reflects on the key inflection points of her career journey holding senior positions at Goldman Sachs and GE. She comments on the importance of formal education being a graduate of Howard University and holding an MBA from Harvard. We discussed why our industry is lacking in women and minority representation in "C" suite positions and what should be done to improve it. Leslie also shares her experience and advice on taking risks, approaching challenges and prevailing over setbacks. Finally, Leslie offers her perspectives on work life harmony, her leadership style and the "imposter syndrome".
Greetings. I am David Kong, the founder and principal, the advisors. We are a non-profit organization dedicated to empowering personal success. I'm delighted to welcome Leslie Hale, the chairperson of the American Hotel and Lodging Association to our show today. Leslie is the president and c e o of RLJ Lodging Trust, a leading hotel, real estate investment trust. Prior to RLJ, she held senior positions at Goldman Sachs and GE. She's on the board of directors at Macy's, Inc and also Delta Airlines. She's a Howard University trustee and also a board member of the Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond. Welcome, Leslie.
Leslie:Thank you, David. How are.
David:Good. It's great to have you on the show. Leslie, you are such a busy person. I'm just delighted to have you. Now, Leslie, you've had an impressive career journey. Can you share some of the inflection points in your career? What are some of the key success factors that contribute to your success?
Leslie:David, look, I don't think there was any one thing. I think all of it together has enabled me to to arrive where I am today. I would think that, my key inflection points for me were. Going to GE versus going to Wall Street right out of undergrad and having the ability to work at an organization that was multi that was multiple platforms that allowed me to transition to different spaces and places in the finance industry. I would say, working international for a year was a significant inflection point for me as well. And then having the opportunity to come to R L J. All of those things have given me opportunities and access to people that I wouldn't have otherwise.
David:sounds like a very broad spectrum of experiences and perspectives that contributed to your success, but that's a wonderful set of experience that you've had. Now I know some special people like Tom Baltimore had a great impact on your career. Can you comment on the importance of mentors and champions and if they're important, how would one go about finding.
Leslie:Look, I think that my career was built on classic mentorship and sponsorship. I'm a huge believer that this is important. And think that mentors are people who help you all along your journey. I think they open doors that appear to be locked. They advocate for you when they, when you don't even know they're advocating for you. They give you advice and counsel and help you at the different forks in the road. I also think, that that mentors also give you the opportunity to model certain kind of, that's available. And so for me, whether it was Tom Baltimore, Alan Braxton art Harper Connie Moore, I can name a whole lot. It was very important for my success. I think the thing that I've always tried to do is to make sure that people know that if they're invest in me, that I'm listening. I think oftentimes people ask for advice and counsel and they don't necessarily follow up or follow through. And so one of the things that I pride myself on is, if I spend time with somebody and ask them in perspective, not only do I not only do I Hey, Evan, sorry. Not only do I follow up and follow through, but I let them know that the advice that they gave me was helpful and here was the outcome. And so I think that, gaining mentorship is a function of obviously doing good work so that people can feel good about associating themselves with you. And then secondary, it's about listening and actually executing on the advice and perspective that
David:I totally agree with you. It's well said. If mentors put in the time and effort to help you become more successful, the least you can do is to pay attention and Right. Tell them you're interested, Yeah. Yeah. And that you've listened to their advice and you've made great things happen. That's so true. Thanks for sharing that. Now, Leslie, I've heard you say that a lot of deals are done on golf courses and over beer, but you don't play golf and you don't drink beer So how do you rise in a world, especially in the earlier days when you were at GE and Goldman Sachs?
Leslie:Look, I think that what whatever arena that you play in there are rules of engagement. So whether it is an academic environment, whether it is a corporate environment, a sporting arena, there are always rules of engagement. And so what I've tried to do is figure out what are the rules of engagement and then figure out how to make those rules work for myself, right? And so I do think that in the corporate environment that a lot of deals are done on the golf. Golf course or over drinks, but the essence of that is about relationships and about people doing business with people they like and they know. And while I don't golf and I don't drink beer, I do eat breakfast, lunch and dinner And so I find ways and avenues to connect with people on a one-on-one basis and find opportunities to build relationships on a one-on-one basis that I don't achieve necessarily on the golf course. And so I think it's really about understanding the dynamic. And then making them work in a way that is true to yourself. And so I didn't force myself to try to do golf or do something that was unnatural, but I understood the underlining objective and then tried to achieve it a different kind of way. And I think that's true in any arena, that you're. You're playing in, whether it's sports and it's left-handed versus right-handed, sport or whatnot. You have to figure out how to do it in a way that fits comfortably for you. And I've done that throughout, throughout my career.
David:That's very well said. And the fact is, we are all different. And we've got to play to our strengths and find ways to make things work for us. Very well said. Thank you very much. Let's talk about d e I, diversity, equity, and inclusion. A lot of great companies like Hyatt, Marriott and Hilton are all doing great things and have great programs on improving d e I in our industry, and certainly things are improving. In your opinion, why is there such a lack of diversity and inclusion in our industry, in the C-suite positions, higher positions. Why is there such a lack of diversity and what can be done about that?
Leslie:So first I would say obviously our industry's not unique. I would say that's a case in many industries, particularly in real estate. But across, you name, whatever industry it is. I do think that hospitality has a greater number of opportunities set. The base in which the employees are pulled from or can grow from is actually quite diverse. And so I would say the hospitality is set up. To do better than other industries. And so that excites me. What I would say is, though, that the ingredients for what's missing in my view, is no different for hospitality than it is for any other industry. And I think it's really around access to opportunity. and then support. Once you get there, I think that people have to be deliberate about giving people access, but also the support once they arrive in the C-Suite opportunity. I was surrounded by tremendous leadership, a supportive board and those things allowed me to focus on delivering excellence in whatever role that I was in, and I would. The things that allow a a minority or woman to be successful are the same ingredients that allow our male counterparts to be successful. It's access to the opportunity and then, a support network once you achieve that, because nobody knows everything when they get in the role, but providing the person the opportunity for. For exposure. I think those are the key things from my perspective. And I think the hospitality industry, because of the fact that we have ownership, we have management, we have brand and all of those have leadership components associated with it. And there's a number of opportunities for people of color and for women to achieve leadership roles within this industry. It's a matter about being de. And giving giving opportunities. I would say that, Tom Baltimore and Bob Johnson were very focused on making sure that they gave minorities access to opportunities. The fact of the matter is that when they started r lj, they were in the, they were in the heart of hospitality. They could have went out and hired a number of individuals. Yet Tom went out and hired a lot of individuals who didn't necessarily have hospitality experience. They had real estate experience. They. Tangential experience, and they had the aptitude in order to achieve success in this industry. And they made deliberate decisions around that. And it's yielded not only myself, but a number of executives within r LJ and outside of r lj have been successful as a result of their deliberate intention to give minorities the opportunity. Very
David:well said. It is access opportunity support network, and being deliberate and intentional. Very well said. Thanks for sharing that. Let's talk about imposter syndrome. the negative feeling that you don't belong or you are uncomfortable because there's a lack of diversity at the table. I'm sure you've experienced that at some point. I have certainly experienced that. What is your advice on how we can overcome that negative feeling and what are some constructive things that one can.
Leslie:Look I think that early in my career, I absolutely felt those things, particularly being oftentimes the only woman or, and definitely the only minority in the room. But over time, I think I've learned to embrace my differences as an asset I think is important. Ingredient. I think that what I find very interesting is people always remember who I am, right? Because there's only one of me. And so that makes conversation a lot easier. Sometimes I can't remember everybody in the room, but they can remember me. think the other thing that's important is to talk to people. I find that many of the experiences that I have, while they're my experiences, the fact of the matter is that they're not unique nor. There are a number of people who experience the same thing, and that when I've had the opportunity to have that network of friends and colleagues and mentors and sponsors, as I engage and talk with them it brings down the temperature relative to this topic because I realize that it's not me. know, It's a situation in the environment and I have to power through it. And that over time, I have just been able to embrace it and see it as an asset as opposed to the opposite of that.
David:I totally agree with you about that. In fact, I do the same thing, when I was having those negative feelings. I try to embrace my uniqueness, right? And the fact that I'm different and special, I tell myself, Hey, I'm special. I've got something special to bring to the table. And people would notice that. Yeah. Just like you, Funny we think a like in that regard. But thanks for sharing that. Let's talk about importance of formal education. You have an undergrad from Howard. You also have an MBA from Harvard Business School. Very impressive. How important is it in our industry to have formal education?
Leslie:Look I, I grew up in a, in, a family where I was the first to go to a four year college. And so education to me was a privilege. And I tried to make the best out of every opportunity that I was given to have. I think that Howard University has played an important role in my career. And in my life and created a foundation along with my parents and my faith to give me the opportunities where I'm at today without Howard as a core ingredient. I, I don't believe that I would be here today. And I formed relationships and learned how to operate in the environment. So I would say that education, it's not always about the book intelligence that you learn in an environment, it's the social component of it. It's the ability to navigate different environments. I learned how to shake hands, at Howard University, and it's something as simple as that. It's something that's served me well throughout my career. A number of times I will shake a hand and the level of confidence that it exudes when I do that and the number of compliments that I get from that has been life altering in some respects. Something as simple as just shaking a hand. And in an educational environment isn't always about textbooks, although that's important. For the students that are watching grades. But it's also all of the other things that are outside of that, learning from that perspective. And then I would say that from a business school perspective, and it was really about the network and the individuals that I had the opportunity to meet. But it was also about demystifying a number of industries that I had not had the opportunity to participate in. And so what I realized was that when I heard about things like private equity and hedge funds and at the time Wall Street, which I hadn't done, these were all mystical things for me. And then I would meet my classmates who had worked in those spaces and places, and I realized that. equally as smart and equally as capable. And then it really demystified all of those environments for me. So it was really about building confidence in going to both of these environments than it was simply about the textbook smarts related to going to school. And so I think that, education is important, but it's much broader than the classroom. It's about the people and opportunities that you have to experience while you're in the educational.
David:Very well said. It is much broader than just a classroom. Yes. Very well said. Let's talk about taking risk. A lot of leaders that we've interviewed have talked about the importance of taking risks because it helped them broaden their experience and perspectives. And like you, you had great experience at GE and Goldman Sachs. Tell us any learnings that you have garnered from taking risk and any advice you can offer.
Leslie:I think that it's important to take risk, and I think it's okay to skin your knee and fall down as long as you get back up. I would say that, there's not one particular learning. that I can point to and say, this is what I learned from that risk. But what I can say is that by taking risk and stepping out in various forms, what I've learned is a gut instinct. And that leadership isn't always about having perfect facts. In math, one plus one is two, it's not three. And sometimes in leader. you have to make decisions off of imperfect information. And so taking risk has given me the fortitude, the resiliency to recognize that if I fail, I can get back up and continue forward. But to not make a decision is not an option. And so it's really the resiliency that I've learned from taking risk. And it's the ability to recognize that not every risk is fatal. And it's the qualitative components, a around that and. operational and strategic gut instincts is what I've developed, from that, as well. I think the other thing that I learn and continue to try to practice and I'm not always perfect at, is that when you I take calculated risks, not just risks for sake of taking risk. I think about it and then I don't look back. I try to make decisions based off of the information I have at that moment in time and recognize that if the facts change, that shouldn't make me feel that I made a bad decision, right? Or I took a bad risk. You make decisions off of the information you have at the moment in time. And so what I try not to do is I try to learn the lesson but not look back in a negative way so that it doesn't hold me back or cripple me from taking the next risk associated with that. Nobody's perfect. And so I think that the resiliency is what I've gleaned most out of taking any kind of. I like
David:that very much. You talk about resilience and you also talk about taking a risk. So what if it fails, but you learn from it and improves your ability to rely on your gut? Because a lot of us have to rely on our gut instinct because the information is not perfect. and if taking risk and making mistakes help you improve that's so valuable. Yeah. I like very much what you said. Thank you. Let's talk about the challenges. All of us have faced challenges. I'm curious as to your general approach to challenges.
Leslie:My general approach to challenges is really to. To be cerebral and to think about it, right? What is the challenge? What's the opportunity set that sits around that challenge? And really de what's the decision tree around that, right? And recognizing that no avenue that I have is perfect. But what I try to do is approach challenges with my eyes wide open. I do the work, right? And so while I'm a risk taker, I don't just willy-nilly take risk, I take calculated risk and it becomes calculated. Cause I've thought about it and I understand the downside and the upside not to perfection, right? Nobody does. So that if I run into a risk or run into an issue based off of the approach that I've taken I feel comfortable because I either predicted that may. and therefore have a thought process about how to approach that. So I think challenges for me are about how I approach it with a sort of detailed thought process around that. Now over time, speed of execution can't allow you to do a whole lot of analysis, and that's where gut instinct and experience comes in. But I do take time to step back. Look at the challenge, understand the pros and cons associated with different avenues as I approach it. And so I feel like the way that I approach challenges is to be informed to my best of mobility based on the facts and circumstances that surround the situation. And that gives me the confidence to be able to. to force forward, right? And there are sometimes where you have a lot of information and sometimes we have limited information. But as long as I have the confidence that I've done what I could do in the moment in time relative to that challenge, then I felt good about moving forward. What, regardless of what the outcome is.
David:Great! Sounds like you get as much information as you can. You weigh the pros and cons, and you always have a plan B in case of contingency. Yeah, I do. That's pretty good, Thanks for sharing that. Now we talk a little bit about learning from our mistakes and setbacks, but how do you find the resilience to overcome setbacks and disappointments, because that's par for the course,
Leslie:So whenever I have a setback or something that's disappointment, I I actually write it down and I write down what wa what happened, what did I know going in? What did I not know? And did I do everything I could to make a good decision? And so what I found is that by writing it down, I get it outta my system from a standpoint. Otherwise, I have an information loop in my head replaying it over and over again. But by putting it on paper, it allows me to look at the facts and circumstances in an organized sort of fashion. And if I can walk away from that saying, you know what? Based on the facts that I had at that time. not sure that I would've made a different decision, right? And when I look at my effort towards the issue, if I gave 110%, then I'm good. If I feel like I could have done more, or I didn't do, I wasn't as disciplined around my approach and process, then I will remind myself of that next time. This is what happens when you don't do the work. And so I think I try to take the lessons learned from it by being, to being reflective on it. And sometimes I can do that in my head, but sometimes I do it on paper as well.
David:That's great, I like the fact that you actually write it down, because it's a great reminder. We always wanna learn from past mistakes. That, that's wonderful. Now we touched on networking a little earlier and you talked about being your authentic self and feeling comfortable embracing your unique self. And those are keys to networking. So what other advice can you offer on networking?
Leslie:I'm not sure that it's any different than I talked about in terms of connecting with people, but it's finding topics and common ground where you can meet people and, but do it in a way that makes you feel comfortable because when you're comfortable, The opportunity set to do it over again increases when you're uncomfortable, you're gonna be reluctant to do it again. And so I would say that you find your spheres and rings of influence. Everybody has a strategy around networking. Some people can go to a conference and they'll walk away with four or five new relationships. That is not me, right? I use sort of a hub and spoke of system, meaning that I'm better one-on. I know that. And then I also prefer a warm introduction versus a cold introduction. So if I have somebody who knows somebody, I will have them make an introduction and then I will do my homework to be prepared to engage the conversation and develop from there. And again, as I mentioned before, follow up, follow through. Let the person know that I was listening and appreciate the advices I gave. But I use a hub and spoke system from a standpoint. Of networking. And I, what I find is inevitably you're generally only one to two phone calls away from somebody that you wanna have access to. And so the hub and spoke system has worked well for me throughout, throughout my career.
David:That's great. Love that. Now you have a very demanding job and you also offer your time in a lot of civic and profession professional capacities. Can you talk about work-life, harmony?
Leslie:Yeah. First of all I think that it's important to, for me to say that I don't have it all figured out, and I think that. sometimes in life when we look at people who have succeeded, we don't really understand the journey in which they have traveled. And so I think it's, I important to be honest and frank, that lots of times people don't have the balance and the harmony or flexibility all figured out. What I have figured out is that you can't have it all at the same time. You can have it, but not all the same time, and that life is about. And, someone gave me advice when I was an investment banker about, do the things that are important to you and the rest of it outsources, right? Particularly as it relates to your children. And so what I realized, for example, was that, having time with my children and eating with them was important. But making their baby food was not right, And really prioritizing what's really important, quality of time and those things and. understanding trade offs. What's important to you at any important time, and recognizing that you can have it, but not all at the same time, and to recognize that you are not gonna get it all right. But you'll get it mostly right. And that if you're there in the important times, that the kids will appreciate that. I think you know that when I was at General Electric, there was an exercise that they made us do as a young analyst, and they had us write down all of our core. And we wrote those down and they said, now put it into order. And then they said, what do you think that order's gonna be five years from now? right? And so it means, what I learned through that exercise was that your values won't change, but the order of priority may, over time. And I think that was something that was helping me frame the fact that. You can still be true to yourself, still be true to your core values, but recognize that, when you don't have kids, what your life will be like when they do have kids. What will it be like and to be able to recognize that it will morph and change over time and to appreciate, the pros and cons of that. And so I don't have it all figured out. I have four beautiful children. But I also grew up in a household where my parents were entrepreneurs and so I saw how they worked and I grew up in that environment and I turned out okay. So I think that it's really about recognizing that you can be true to your values. The prioritization will change over time and to recognize that. flexibility over balance is more important and and you'll get it right most of the time. But not all, not, but not all the time.
David:I love that. Especially when you say that you can have it all, but just not all the time. I love that. Okay. We are coming to the end of our interview. I always ask for a final piece of advice. Our show us about self empowerment. Would you mind to offer a final piece of advice for the audience?
Leslie:My piece of advice is to not sweat the small stuff. and to be able to distinguish between that, like what seemed like it was monumental issues for me when I was in my twenties or my thirties. And I look back and I realize that really wasn't that big of a deal. And to recognize that That you're living in different points of time and to recognize to try to project forward what that small issue looks like, and hopefully gain perspective that it's not that big of a deal and you can push forward through it. I think that there, if I look back on my career, there are things that I thought were the end of all ends and the stress and agony over that was really not worth the ride. As I look back on it, so I was just saying, not sweat small stuff to continue to take risk and to have resiliency as you move forward. Yeah,
David:I like that very and very much. Don't sweat the small stuff, Yeah. And I also like what you said earlier, your priorities change. Your core values remain the same, but your priorities change over time. It's really well said. Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom. Leslie, it's been a delightful interview. I really appreciate your taking the time to be on our show. Thank you.
Leslie:No problem. Thank you for having me.
David:Yeah. Great. And to our audience if you enjoy this interview, please visit us on our website, DEIAdvisors.org. We hope to see you there. Thank you again.