Justin discusses what he looks for in building a great team, how he evaluates and overcomes obstacles, and the importance of building relationships which then develop your network. He also shares how he strives to be present in both his career and with his family and why he'd tell his younger self to worry less about the future and maximize the present. Justin also talks about how his volunteerism with not-for-profit organizations and industry organizations has been invaluable for him and how he prepares for public speaking opportunities.
Justin discusses what he looks for in building a great team, how he evaluates and overcomes obstacles, and the importance of building relationships which then develop your network. He also shares how he strives to be present in both his career and with his family and why he'd tell his younger self to worry less about the future and maximize the present. Justin also talks about how his volunteerism with not-for-profit organizations and industry organizations has been invaluable for him and how he prepares for public speaking opportunities.
Good afternoon. I am Rachel Humphrey with DEI Advisors and I am delighted today to be joined by the chair of HLA and the CEO of Op Apple Hospitality. Justin Knight. Justin, welcome to the show. Thank you. One of the great things about the hospitality industry is that we all have different paths to leadership. Mine and yours, for instance, have been incredibly different. Talk a little bit about your journey and how you got to where you are
Justin Knight:today. I I think the path to where we are rarely follows the path we thought we might follow in the beginning and. When I graduated from business school with a master's degree in 2000, I had intended and had accepted a position with a sister company to the company I ultimately joined. And interestingly I joined a company called Apple Suites, which was a predecessor for Apple Hospitality when the company was very small and sister company to the larger parent company that I'd intended to join. At the time the company had about six hotels and two employees. And I was fortunate to get in at a point in the development of the company where I was able to participate in all aspects of the company. I, I think you have spoken to a very close friend and colleague of mine, Chrissy Gathright in the past. And the two of us had a wonderful time thinking big thoughts and Drew. Dreams. And over the 20 plus years that I've been associated with the company, we've owned somewhere around 450 hotels and built eight separate companies. Sold, four of them merged, three enlisted, and ultimately acquired the last. I think when I graduated with my undergraduate degree in political science I was a long way from where I've ended up today. And that the path, getting to where I am today was really one where I took advantages of opportunities that presented themselves. I think I'm a person who likes to plan. And likes to think about the future. But I, I think to, to a large extent, my success has been at least in part, attributable to the fact that I've been flexible and and when there are opportunities that were different than what I had originally envisioned. But interesting with potential I was willing to enable to, to take advantage.
Rachel Humphrey:That's such great advice and I love the thought because for so many of us, it ended completely, or it has progressed completely differently than we had originally planned. And being open to new opportunities, new challenges, things like that is a common thread that we hear from so many industry leaders. One of the important aspects, Justin of. Your leadership of course is now serving as chair of the American Hotel and Lodging Association, and getting involved with associations and with nonprofits has been an important part of your career journey, but also your personal life. Tell us a little bit about why getting involved with associations and nonprofits is important and what skills or other things have you developed as part of those roles that have helped you in your corporate leader?
Justin Knight:First of all, agent A is an amazing organization, as and incredibly well run. And, participating and interacting with leadership within that organization has been a privilege. And I'd say specific to Agent A, I've learned far more from my. Association with the organization than I've been able to contribute. But broadly speaking as I think about my involvement with not for profit organizations there's something very unique to that experience. And, anyone looking to develop their leadership skills should seek out an organization that they're passionate about and volunteer their. And I, I think what's unique is that generally speaking, not for profit organizations have rely very heavily on volunteers and traditional hierarchy is less effective. Leadership within those organizations is far more dependent on the power of persuasion and, and influence and ability to to rally others around a common goal. And cause and I think as I think back about the various organizations that I've been a part of, Outside of my regular career there, there have been incredibly valuable lessons I've learned there related to how leadership can work outside of a traditional hierarchical structure and how I should interact with people to win them over to a cause that I'm passionate about. And to get buy in to a particular.
Rachel Humphrey:I love the idea of the power of persuasion as well being a common thread between them. And one of the ways that we do that is obviously through presentations and when a lot of people think about public speaking, they think about the giant conference with thousands of attendees, which you've obviously done, but they, you can also hone your public speaking through presenting to a board or your own team or. Smaller groups. How have you developed your public speaking skills over the years? How do you present for opportunities when you are going to be speaking at either the conference side, obviously you present to a board shareholders and other things in the course of your current role and in your role with hla.
Justin Knight:It's interesting. Public speaking is one of my least favorite things, and so I, I don't generally actively seek out opportunities to do it, but. But I have, as you mentioned, been given plenty of opportunities to practice in that space. Yeah. I think a lot of my focus going into any speaking event or any conversation is around ensuring that I have something valuable to share. And, I think I've spent plenty of time over my career and even prior to my career in business school working to hone skills related to public speaking and techniques related to, to effectively convey a message. But I find that if the message is right to begin with communicating it is far easier. And as I interact with people within our company and others that seek me out as a mentor I generally encourage them to first focus on learning something or developing a skill set that makes unique or enables you to provide valuable and differentiated insights related to a specific topic. And then I find speaking engagements tend to follow, and what you say ends up being very interesting to the groups that are listening. I think all of us have opportunity to practice speaking and being thoughtful about what we're saying. And being mindful of how the message we're trying to convey is being received. Even in one-on-one conversations like the conversations that we're having now can help to identify areas of opportunity from a communication standpoint that can be fine tuned and honed over time.
Rachel Humphrey:It's so interesting to me that it is not one of your favorite things to do because as obviously I have sourced you to speak many times for events that I have been in charge of organizing and today as well. And you certainly always provide value and never come across as dreading the opportunity. So I appreciate that from a personal standpoint. And speaking of personal standpoints, I like to share a little bit about. I got to know the person that I have chosen to share your story as an advisor for DEI advisors. And in addition to sourcing you to speak at several things during the pandemic, I leaned very heavily on you for your. Knowledge every day. What are you going through? What are you seeing for hotel owners? What do we need to be through a hoa, through hla, through Apple and whatnot. And you became an incredibly important resource for me. So personally, I thank you for that. But the pandemic obviously was an incredible disruption of. The industry at a time, hitting at a time that everything was really thriving. Talk a little bit about your leadership skills or traits during the pandemic that you think allowed you not only to be a leader within your organization, but also serve as an industry leader.
Justin Knight:I within my organization specifically, I was fortunate to be surrounded. Incredible people. I have a wonderful team. We've worked together for, in many cases over a decade, and really have grown up together in the industry with a lot of shared experience that helped as we face challenges beyond that from a cultural standpoint. We have a saying, we do hard things and I think we had prior to the pandemic looked for ways to challenge ourselves and to extend ourselves and, have a company culture that thrives off of. Doing difficult things and accomplishing big and audacious goals. And, I think that created an atmosphere where we could come together and view the challenges we were facing as opportunities and find joy would be an exaggeration but find pleasure in addressing those challenges. Effectively I think. from a leadership style. I, it would be easier to talk to some of the people that I work with potentially for an answer to that. But I I spend a lot of time with people asking questions and I, I think while generally I enter a conversation with a very specific idea of where I want to get to'em and You know how I think we should best address things. I try to be open-minded in those conversations and I find that by asking questions and seeking to understand other perspectives. Generally two things happen. One the person that I'm working with comes closer to where I am, or two I I have an ability to understand better the problem from their perspective and to be in a position to make better decisions that way. I'd also say that similar to the conversation we had about working a not for profits spending time persuading and helping people to understand why it is you feel a certain way or that a particular direction is going to be the most effective direction for the company to take is time well spent. And then allowing people flexibility to implement. A strategy in the way that works best for them. I start by saying I have very talented people that I work with and giving kind of broad direction or coming to agreement around broad strategy and allowing them the flexibility to implement in a way that, that fits them and their teams has over time yielded the best.
Rachel Humphrey:I love the idea of even when things are great, challenging yourselves to be bigger and better, and stronger is such a great. Corporate culture to have around. So that's a perfect segue then. Let's talk about, you've mentioned Christy and others and having this great team around you for over a decade. What do you look for in building that team? Obviously you can always look at pedigree, you can always look at resumes and jobs and education, but what are those other IT factors that you look for when you're building the team around?
Justin Knight:Chrissy, I can't take any credit for she, she was with the company before I was, but but certainly was over time. And continues to be as she serves on our port. A great partner to me in the build out of this company. But it's interesting, we've had a lot of conversations as we've worked on succession within our organization around what's important and and I think number one, competence. Is critical. And so as I think about building out my team, I look for people who have demonstrated competence in an area that they would be assigned to. And then beyond that passion for the work and a desire and willingness to. Do hard things in order to accomplish a desired objective are critical. And then, from a workability standpoint it's critical to have people who bring a good attitude to the work that they do and have an ability to work well as part of a team. And I know that's something that gets talked about a lot. It's incredibly rare in my experience. To have a group of people more than one or two that can consistently work together in a cooperative and collaborative way. And I've been very fortunate throughout my career to have that type of experience, from a cultural standpoint. I've insisted from the very beginning on interviewing everybody that we hire before we hire them and having a conversation around what what our company culture is and what's expected of people and how how people succeed within the company. And I feel like that's given me a touch point with people as they begin their career with our company such that, I'm able to touch base with them over the years and assess their progress and recognize those we're most likely to be effective in areas of other respons.
Rachel Humphrey:That's a great list of attributes and it's no wonder that the team around you has been so successful and despite having achieved obviously the top level of our industry that does not come without its share of obstacles. What do you do when evaluating obstacles or challenges? How do you gather the information you need to make decisions and what does that process look like for.
Justin Knight:A lot of it would depend on the obstacle. I think over the past couple of years, at least, those of us who are in the hospitality industry have shared experience dealing with specific obstacles related to the pandemic. But in the course of my life I've also dealt with a lot of personal. Obstacles as of most people. I think the saying what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, has some truth associated with it to the extent we view obstacles as opportunities and at the beginning, Of the pandemic. We I guess back it up a little bit. In 2017, I was in a near fatal plane crash in 2018. My wife was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2019. My entire executive team came to me and told me that they intended to retire. So by the time we got to 2020 in Covid, I'd had a little bit of practice, at least near term practice, dealing with with challenges. And, a few things stood out to me through that experience. One. We have capacity. I think all of us do beyond what we know and the beauty of challenges and and obstacles is that they create opportunities for us to see and to demonstrate what we're truly capable of. And as we move through or as I move through each of those challenges I found it was critical to, to focus attention on what I had and what I could do and to not ignore, but to spend significantly less time focused on. What I didn't have or what I couldn't control. And the more I was able to control my focus and shift it towards things that were actionable or things that I could be grateful for the better I was positioned. To see opportunity and to move through a particular obstacle or around a particular obstacle and find success on the other side. I, I think certainly as an executive team, I highlighted the fact that in 2019 I had, my time tested executive team announced their retirement. So coming into 2020 I had a new executive team who had worked with the company for. For an extended period of time, but not in the leadership roles that they were assuming. And the challenges associated with Covid provided an amazing opportunity for us to gel as a team and to come together around a common challenge. And to look for ways that, that we could use that as an opportunity to better our own interaction and the way we were structured as a company. And I think looking back, on our experience over the past couple of years they've been invaluable in terms of preparation for what's likely to come over the next five to 10 years.
Rachel Humphrey:I appreciate you sharing that, and I love the perspective of focusing on what you have and what you are capable of and not what you don't. It's easy to get bogged down when things. Go maybe how we want them to, but it can be much more powerful to focus on what we can achieve. Speaking of what we can achieve balance is not one of them, but certainly trying to manage both a career and a personal life. And usually when we ask this, we're talking to women. And people assume for whatever reason, that it's only women that have to juggle the demands of a career and being part of a family. But obviously I know that yours is very important to you and you have a not only a demanding job, but now you have the added responsibilities or at least time consuming aspect of hla. What are some of the ways that you think that you've really over time evolved to manage the. Priorities that you have for both your career and your family?
Justin Knight:I think early in my career I had unrealistic expectations around what balance in my life might look like and I, I've had opportunities as my career has progressed to sit down and to think about what's important to me. Success in any area of our lives requires sacrifice in other areas. And I think in order to achieve high levels of success in a career there are things that have to be sacrificed that in order to be successful as a parent or a spouse, there are other things that need to be sacrificed. And for me, two things one. Making a concerted effort to be a hundred percent wherever I am, at any particular time. So when I'm with my family, to be a hundred percent dedicated to them and when I'm at work to be a hundred percent dedicated to work has been critical. I find when I slip from that, That I feel incredibly unsatisfied and I end up being meaningfully less productive. And then second, really spending time thinking about what's important to me and making sure that I'm not neglecting anything that's important to me for an extended period of time. And for me, as I looked at things that, that might be sacrificed personal time was something that. Sacrificed. Sleep sometimes was something that, that I was willing to sacrifice. But things that were consistent for me were I was at work when it was important to be at work, whether that was in the office or on the road. And I was at home as often as I could be. And when I was home, I was spending time with my children. And, I have. A wonderfully supportive spouse who who adjusted to the demands of my career as it became more demanding. But we as as it pertains to the family, we had a priority of eating meals together as a family. And, when I was there, I wasn't checking emails, I wasn't doing things other than spending. With my children. I set up on Sunday afternoons. I started a habit of having interviews with dad with each of my children every Sunday where we'd sit down and spend 30, 40 minutes with each of my four children talking about what was important to them. Talking about things that I'd recognize in their lives. And then one of my favorite things is, Each summer I would take one of my four children anywhere he or she wanted to go in the world. And would spend four or five days generally in a foreign country, just the two of us with very concentrated time spent exploring things that were new to both of us. And looking back, With my family. Those created important memories. Now my golf game's horrible because when I, when it came to weekends, if I was in town I made a determination that I would be with my family. And so for me, as I prioritized the things that I was willing to sacrifice were time with friends time on my own time related to hobbies that I couldn't include my kids in. But. You know now that I'm a little bit older and my kids are grown, mostly I'm realizing that was a valuable trade off because the time with my children was short lived. And now the one child that I have remaining at home spends more time away from home than I do. I think being there when it was most important to them was something that I think long term from a relationship standpoint will pay rich to.
Rachel Humphrey:And I love the sharing of experiences, family dinner, very important for us as well. I think that being a hundred percent present where you are is something we're continuing to hear from leaders who are realizing this as career goes on. I certainly have a much later in my career, but just being present where you are so incredible if, and I love the interviews with dad. If mine were not venturing away from home, I might have to implement that, but I have. 17 and 21 year old daughters. And so they are rarely found around the house these days. But no, I appreciate that a lot. In this industry relationship building and networking are really important, whether it is to find deals, whether it's to speak at events to have trusted resources for things that you wanna go through. And you talked about having a great support system at home and at work in building out that support system. But we each network and build our relationships differently. You and. Similar networks, but we've built them very differently. How do you think you go about building genuine relationships with others in the industry and in your personal
Justin Knight:life? I focus a lot on building and maintaining relationships and and end up with a network. I haven't at any point in my career spent time intentionally looking to build out a network, but I, Love and enjoy spending time with people. And I've been very cautious from the beginning of my career to ensure that I don't burn bridges that I'm viewed as a person who has integrity. And that that I work to maintain positive relationships with everybody that I interact with. And I'd say, that's both people who work for the company, have worked for the company and people within the industry. Our industry is a wonderful industry and people I think are inter people in the industry are interesting people who are incredibly hospitable. And so building relationships hasn't been particularly difficult. They're people that I enjoy spending time with and I found that. Having a real relationship puts you in a position such that when you need something or when somebody needs something of you it's, the interaction's less transactional and more natural. And that's something that's important to me.
Rachel Humphrey:I love the idea too, of building the relationship aside from either having something to offer or needing something in return, because then you are building that genuine relationship and the rest will follow. And I love the idea, I hadn't thought of it this way, of building the relationships and then that creates, The network itself. Justin, I've told you this before, I could sit and talk with you all day so much to learn, but we're gonna run short on time. I wanna talk about just a couple of final things. One is, as a period of reflection or as we continue to grow as leaders, I love hearing and answering what advice I would give to my younger self because I think that it's so important to think back on those times. And honestly, what DEI advisors is doing is giving. The advice and the lessons we've learned along the way to others to help jumpstart maybe some of that thinking. What would you tell 21 year old Justin Knight that from what you've learned today?
Justin Knight:And it's easy to say from the vantage point that I have now, but I would definitely tell my 21 year old self to worry less about the. And make sure that I was maximizing the present. I am a planner by nature and spend a lot of time, or certainly have throughout my life, spent a lot of time focused on what's next. And often as I highlighted in the beginning, What's next isn't something that I could have foreseen or envisioned and often in really good ways. I, I think spending less time worried about the future and more time focused on the present would be the best advice I could give to my younger self.
Rachel Humphrey:I love that. We have touched on a lot of topics today, but there's a wealth of knowledge that you have not shared. What is something for those keeping in mind the motto of DEI advisors to empower personal success? What is something you would tell people as they are looking to take that next step in their career or to empower themselves for that future that will await them?
Justin Knight:It's interesting, I'm having a lot of these conversations with my own children as they begin their own careers and every time I tell them to be clear about what success means to them. I think we have a misconception that success is the same for everybody and spending the time. Determining what's most important to you and what success might look like is critical. And then, for me personally it's important to be a better person tomorrow than I am today. And so spending time. Focusing each day on things that I can control and things that will make me better and stronger. And then engaging my success in terms of progress relative to the person that I was is, for me, the way I manage my life and my career.
Rachel Humphrey:That's incredible advice. Justin, on behalf of an industry and me personally, thank you so much for your incredible leadership. Thank you for sharing your path and your insights with our listeners at DEI Advisors, and I appreciate you joining me today.
Justin Knight:It's always a pleasure speaking to you.
Rachel Humphrey:Thanks Justin.